Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Christina (sub-3:00)

Follow the progress of just back from a run, our sub-3:00 hopeful, as she receives expert advice from mentor Paul Evans

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The Evil Pixie    pirate
05/01/2010 at 20:05
good question MM!
05/01/2010 at 21:18
indeed, really good response Gareth and another good question from MM!  As you say, Gareth, it does put some 'strain' on the body but I loved the excuse to eat all that lovely food.  More do-nuts less croisants next time for me!
06/01/2010 at 08:53

So my flight to Manchester airport has been delayed by at least 24 hours! Crazy stuff. So I have an extended holiday!
Regarding the treadmill, I much prefer to run on road, i do find it a bit mind numbing, but when needs must and all that. And actually once I have run a few miles i get into it a bit more. I don't know how good it is for your technique? I Presume the odd session is fine though, I did quite a lot a while back and found I ran more upwards than forwards! I always put the incline on 1 percent. 
I did 10 miles today and put a towel over the monitor so I couldn't look at the time and distance every second! I find this to be better than constantly looking at how much longer you have left!

Gareth: there was a chapter on nutrition in the book, I will have a read of that today. I actually studied sports science and loughborough, but it amazing how much I've forgotton.  I have been told that we should be receiving some lucozade products this week/ next week so I can start experimenting. But I am used to gel and water so I may start with this

Hope everyone is managing to keep the training up despite the weather?   Take care on the ice.
06/01/2010 at 09:39

Hope it's somewhere warm where you get to extend your holiday, JBFAR.

I really don't think the treadmill makes any long term technique changes.  I run on one several times a week as I said on a different post, because it's good to use different surfaces when doing high mileage.  I prefer to run outside, but when doing 80 + miles and not being able to get off road on dark evenings the constant tarmac can be a bit harsh on the legs, the treadmill gives them a break.  Also, didn't Ingrid Kristiansen train on a treadmill due to bad weather?  Oh and quite recently I read that Haile G does too.  What's good for any elite is good for us

06/01/2010 at 09:43
Hmmm, Manchester on Sea.  Interesting choice of holiday destination!.  Safe journey back Christina and hope you're not stuck in the airport for too long
Edited: 06/01/2010 at 09:44
06/01/2010 at 10:20

Looks like it the cross trainner for me today. we have a foot of snow here!!!!

How about everyone else?

06/01/2010 at 14:09

JBFAR - hope you've enjoyed the holiday and that the delays aren't causing you too much stress.

Hilly/JBFAR - check out this link.  Dan Robinson claims to have run his first marathon in 2:38 off treadmill training only - talented bar-steward .

SF et al - I don't buy into the Aussie carb load thing either.  Not for runners at our level, anyway. A couple of days of quality scoffing and good fuelling strategy on the day ought to do the trick.  Last year I attended a wedding the day before FLM - in deepest Wiltshire.  Not ideal preparation, either from a rest (given the long drive) or nutrition point of view.  I was suited and booted with a banana in each pocket and a tupperware of cold pasta in the car! I even persuaded Mrs GE to carry a large bag of raisins around in her handbag!

06/01/2010 at 14:49
TS17, likewise snow here. Not in a hurry to break a leg so hit the turbo instead today. Was supposed to go out on a club road run last night, but the pavements were like an ice rink, as was the track, so we ended up running on the grass in the middle. This is the first spring mara I've trained for & I already hate it!
06/01/2010 at 17:05

GE. Interesting link. I thought it was going to say Dan Robinson did loads of miles on a treadmill not just 45 minutes sessions for a marathon! That's some going. Perhaps he ran loads of miles in football training? In my footballing days there some 5/6 mile runs and hard intervals involved in football training but no where near enough miles to run a marathon in any time let alone 2.38! 

10 slow miles in the snow today wishing I had a treadmill. 

06/01/2010 at 17:25

Thanks for the link, GE.  I wish I could get away with 45 mins sessions to run a half decent marathon like that.

15 miles on the treadmill again here today too as pavements too bad to run on.

06/01/2010 at 19:34

Hi Christina

I hope you get home soon,I am afriad its treadmill or trudging around on the grass !

 Keep me posted

Paul

TR
06/01/2010 at 19:49

Even snow here, thats now turned to treacherous ice. I cant see me running again for a few days, cos I have no mill, mind you there's no sign of warmer temperatures for about another week !

I dont do the Aussie carb load thing, reckon its a load of pony myself. And seeing as I rarely do anything faster than a little bit of  MP running, the klast thing I'm going to do 2 days before a big one is run flat out.

06/01/2010 at 20:11

 JBFA - my son returned to Manchester Uni at the weekend and said it is the deepest snow that he has ever seen! - so not good for running when the snow is over your shins!

The weather has certainly been challenging!!  I have been running, but it has been all off road, including an effort session last night on the grass with a good covering of snow. I just keep telling myself that I am going to be so stong and tough When the local Cross Country race was called off this afternoon I did  think about running on a treadmill  but I ended up running 9 miles off road with 8 hill spints to finish off and felt great at the end all warm and glowing

07/01/2010 at 11:20
MM - I am in agreement with the ratio that is suggested for the Aussi method, its more the fact of changing the strategy to such a radical regime just 24 hours before the big day. The Aussi study is stating that you would gain a great storage of carbs by ingesting 7g/km BM, followed by strenuous exercise, then ingesting 12g/kg BM. However, is it likely that you would gain the same success by ingesting 10g/kg BM for 2-3 days prior to the race, without the additional strenuous exercise.Pre-exercise meals can come in many different forms containing different amounts of carbs:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/479052/Gallery/Food_Diary.jpg


For yourself JBFR a good pre run meal plan would be to consume a carbohydrate rich (80-160g) breakfast 3-4 hours before you exercise. This could be in the form of 2 slices of toast (32g carbs), 1 medium sliced banana (32g), large handful of raisins (70g), small bowl cornflakes (26g) with a LS Body Fuel drink (30g). For more information on carbohydrate content. As a pre-race snack 1 hour before you exercise, again you could have a banana or a LS Energy Bar (30g). It is also important to ensure you are hydrated in the lead up to any form of exercise so make sure you check the colour of your urine first thing in the morning and then drink some additional fluid until your urine is pale/clear.

08/01/2010 at 11:57

Day 3 no running...ahhhhhhh I need my running fix. Have been doing an hour on the cross trainer daily but its not the same.

Come on snow, we have all had enough of you now...go back to the north pole....

08/01/2010 at 12:57

Hi all

Just a quick reminder that Nick Morgan (Lead Sport Scientist at Lucozade Sport) will be online between 1 and 2pm today to answer any questions you might have about nutrition.

We've opened the debate a little early so post your questions for Nick now so he can get stuck in straight away at 1pm!

Thanks

Catherine

08/01/2010 at 22:46

I get the impression that BR and Hilly think JBFAR should be doing more miles than the schedule suggests - Ideally they are right, but the schedule is short. Most maras should be thought of at least 6 months prior to race day, if you have a serious target.

Overloading JBFRA may well be counter productive. I think I've read she has never run really high mileage before.

I've thought from the outset that this was a very tough target for JBFAR, and I don't believe trying to cram in too much mileage at this stage will help. I do think that if she gets the correct proportion of steady(mara pace) and threshold runs in, with of course the long run, she has a chance of doing it.

60m/week for a reasonably talented female, done correctly should get her under 3hr/mara. If you need to be doing 80m+/week to break 3hr, then you weren't/aren't blessed with alot of talent, or you're doing too many of your runs too slow.

09/01/2010 at 11:09

I'm home!! I've made it! Yikes- it was touch and go! but after days of traveling im back in snowy winchester contemplating a run in the snow. 

So far week one has not gone 100% to plan due to travel disruptions, but that's the only holiday i'm having between now and the marathon so all fine.  I started the week off Monday and Tuesday 6 miles on treadmill and Wednesday 10miles on treadmill.  Had to have 2 days off for travel and now after letting porridge digest i'll be tackling a 7miler out doors then a 12miler tomorrow.  So week one should be 41 miles in total.

We have lots of snow in Winchester so am hoping itsgoing to be fine to run on and hasnt turned into ice- ill soon find out though! luckily I have gym membership so that will be my fall back plan - the treadie.

Gareth you said For yourself JBFR a good pre run meal plan would be to consume a carbohydrate rich (80-160g) breakfast 3-4 hours before you exercise. This could be in the form of 2 slices of toast (32g carbs), 1 medium sliced banana (32g), large handful of raisins (70g), small bowl cornflakes (26g) with a LS Body Fuel drink (30g). For more information on [i]carbohydrate content[/i]. As a pre-race snack 1 hour before you exercise, again you could have a banana or a LS Energy Bar (30g).

That is much more than i have at the moment- what distance run are you talking here ??  having breakie 3-4 hours before exercise is not always a realistic possiblity either.  I have taken on board eating before running now and always eat an hour before i go out, but for a long run on Sunday i would have porridge, raisons and a bit of sugar with a coffee one our before i go out then take gels and a bit of water with me. maybe i should have a bit of toast as well.

What would you say though was the optimum weight/BMI for a good marathon runner? I don't want to put any weight on as I feel that would effect my time in a negative way.  I don't count calories or anything like that but it can not be ignored that the elite marathon runners do not have any extra weight to them!

Its such a shame races are being cancelled- I hear stubbington 10k has too

09/01/2010 at 11:19

GE- Thanks for that link- that's pretty amazing, and as Hilly said only doing 45 minute sessions would be awaesome- a very talented guy huh!

N&S- Good luck to you on your sub 3 quest also-keep up the posting- are you following the RW schedule aswell?  I dont know what start we will be put on for the VLM- I am checkin that with RW- but i may see you on the start line.

BR: The shedule that Paul has sent me for January doesn' really differ from the RW one. He is going to reevaluate at the end of January as to whether I can increase the miles.  I have asked paul how he will be evaluating it  (i dont have any races planned)but am guessing he will just be looking at my training diary that I will send him and will go from there.

09/01/2010 at 12:43

Jokerman - If you need to be doing 80m+/week to break 3hr, then you weren't/aren't blessed with alot of talent, or you're doing too many of your runs too slow.

Doing that got Hilly sub 3 in 2006 as a F40 - 6th F40 in FLM as it was.  I bet she wished she'd had some talent or done her training runs faster!

Agreed that 6 months is a good timescale to be thinking about, but from the beginning of Dec when the 6 were chosen to VLM day is nearly 4 months, so plenty of time to get in some good mileage on top of the massive IM endurance JBFAR must have.

JBFAR - interesting approach re. following the plan.  Hope it works out.

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