Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Christina (sub-3:00)

Follow the progress of just back from a run, our sub-3:00 hopeful, as she receives expert advice from mentor Paul Evans

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28/12/2009 at 21:58
Evil Pixie - why do you say that (about reading this thread and MM's)? I am curious!
28/12/2009 at 22:29

Congrats on the run at Boxing day JBFAR- great way to start your training in sub 40 10k shape. Avoiding kicking one leg out from under the other definitely sounds like a good start - take care with that bruise!

28/12/2009 at 22:34

Hi Christina

Well done on your 10k at this stage in the game, to say the least is very incouraging

Ok your right calf problem !

As you are going  away on holiday, were you will not be running but cross training,this will give your bruised calf time to heal

this calf problem! is it an ongoing problem, or is it something that has just flared up ?

28/12/2009 at 22:42
Hi Paul- the calf is just bruised as my left heel has been bashing it a bit in the 10k- I think it's just my technique. I have had it before but maybe not as bad. Tonight on my run i focused on my technique and not bashing it-just wondered if I should be doing any drills to sort it out, but perhaps it's a case of just being aware of it.

Thanks HH!
28/12/2009 at 23:36

Hi JBFAR

I can only dream of a 39.59 10k .... and on Boxday Day too! Much respect lady!

Anyway great start on your thread. How many hits??????? You'll hit 3000 before you start at this rate.  

1 week to Week 1 Bring it on!

28/12/2009 at 23:38
errr I meant Boxing Day. I have no idea why I keep writing BOXDAY?
Cheerful Dave    pirate
29/12/2009 at 00:05
TR wrote (see)

most folks say that you need to be able to do 38 mins - ish for a sub3, but I'm not sure cos I dont do 10ks.


Looking at what folks on the sub-3 thread do, I'm not sure there's much of a correlation between 10k times and marathon times, certainly when trying to decide whether 37/38/39 is good for 3 hours.  With her ironman background JBFAR is clearly an endurance athlete, and I suspect she'll end up with a marathon result much better than her 10k times would predict.  It'll certainly be interesting following how things go.

No, I don't do many 10ks either, but partly that's because I'm compartively rubbish at them.  Chicken/egg I suppose.

29/12/2009 at 09:35

I disagree Dave...I think JBFAR has a mammoth challenge. A club mate of mine ran sub 41min/10K this time last year and he did 3:14 at London. He was well committed to his training. He improved to sub 39min/10K too and ran a 87min/half, as part of the build up. 10K times have a big correlation to mara times, but it of course varies for each individual.

JFBAR is definitely ahead of him, but if she manages 2:59'59". I think it will be an excellent achievement. 3 months is a short schedule, and any improvement will be limited because of this.

It's definitely possible, but I think she will need a sub 85min/half under her before she tackles it.

Cheerful Dave    pirate
29/12/2009 at 11:36

Oh, it'll be an excellent achievement Jokerman, and I agree that a half under 85 mins would be a good indicator.  I just don't think you can say you need a specific 10k time to be able to target 3 hours for a marathon.  There's too much variation between individuals in my view.

Personally I wouldn't schedule any 10k races in a VLM plan, in fact I don't do any races as specific pre-London races any more.  I just stick to a few duathlons, for no better reason than I prefer them to racing 20 miles, and recovery is a lot shorter.

29/12/2009 at 11:39
Yep it will defo be tough, don't think anyone doubts that looking at where I am now. I will be doing Wokingham half in feb so would hope to get close to 1 hour 23/24 with januarys training behind me.
Just been looking at matchstick mans thread and there's a lot of discussion about heart rates. I don't use a heart rate monitor myself, never have , but wondering whether I should. I spoke to Paul at the meet and greet about it and he encouraged me to take my resting heart rate each morning but he didn't think it was necessary to use a hr monitor. Do the majority use hr monitors?
TR
29/12/2009 at 11:55

They do - but I dont and neither did lots of World Record holders.

Your main aim still has to be a LSR, a midweek 13 or 14, and as many other stocking filler runs (preferrably 60 mins minimum) as you can manage each week. Jokerman is right, you only have limited timeto get some running endurance and impact miles under your belt.

29/12/2009 at 12:07

Jokerman / Dave - I agree with you both on different points. I personally ran my first marathon last year and managed a 2:58 off the RW sub 3 plan. 10 k time then was low 38, 1/2 was a low 1:23. I to believe there is some correlation between all race distances. i.e you need the speed from the shorter distances and the endurance from the longer.

This year I managed a 2:54 off the same RW sub 3 plan (adjusted the pace) and have a 10 k of 37 dead and 1/2 low 1:21......

JBFAR  - I only use my heart rate monitor for the LSR to stop me going to quick and it works a treat.. do you want to take me up on my earlier offer or will you be giving it a miss this year.

Come on everyone else lets hear your marathon training experiences / plans for this year.... 

29/12/2009 at 12:21
Great to know you did sub 3 following the same schedule I will. What was your previous marathon times? Did you follow it exactly or add anything in?
Cheers for the offer of stubby but I'm wondering if I may be best working on endurance in jan. What date is it? Perhaps Paul could advise what he thinks?
29/12/2009 at 12:35

JBFAR - It was my first marathon and i followed it more or less by the book. I had to swap a few of the LSR on Sundays to get the races in it suggested, but apart from that it was the same.

The marathon was bloody hard work on the day and I struggled in the last 5 - 6 miles, but held on. On the other hand for this years marathon I used the same plan, adjusted the pace, and added a number of days with double sessions, without trying to compromise the important days. i.e LSR on Sun, speed / tempo sessions Tue / Thur and the Wed longer run. Its difficult to add quality mileage, I mainly doubled up on a Mon with the planned recovery run am then a shortish speed session pm. I would also run twice on a Fri and use Sat as a rest day. Some might say they were junk miles but i managed to knock 4 mins off last years time with a 2:54. I will be doing more or less the same this year and hoping to go faster at VLM. 

29/12/2009 at 12:44
Cheers tony . Sounds good. I'm Hoping to do more or less the same schedule as that
29/12/2009 at 12:48
JBFR... may i wish you a very healthy 2010 and look forward to following your progress to the mall in April....lol... I will be a good bit behind you...
29/12/2009 at 15:46

TR - I think the runners of the past used all the resources they had available to them at the time.  Ron Hill experimented with depletion diets, shaving his legs etc. etc.  He told us on Sunday he would never use a treadmill, but others nowadays do, as they've grown up with them.  Just because something wasn't used in the 70s or 80s because it wasn't widely available then, it doesn't mean it would not be a useful training tool now.

JBFAR - HR data is useful stuff to reflect on and can also tell you a story of a particular run or race.  I only wear mine about once a week now as I pretty much know what is happening in my body, but I did use it a lot as I went from running 70mpw all too fast with clubmates to a more structured approach where the easy runs needed to be objectively easy and the faster runs within a certain zone of effort.

Drills - Mike Gratton had Hilly do some to correct areas of weakness.  Fast feet, heel flicks, knee lifts.  They definitely help with co-ordination and strength.  I'm sure your mentor will be able to give you more specific advice.

29/12/2009 at 15:59

TS, was your 2.54 at Abo?

I learnt a lot from training for Abo this year. I just didn't do enough work at or above race pace. I will use the same basic schedule, but might merge it a little with the Garmin 3hr. The thing I like about the Garmin one is that it gives very specific times for each run, making working out the required pace easy.  The schedule I used before said something like '10m steady'. What's 'steady'? 8m/m? 7.30m/m? 7m/m? It's open to a lot of (mis)interpretation.

My planned races this year pre-VLM are the Heartbreak Half (31 Jan), Lytchett 10 (14 Feb), Silverstone Half (14 Mar), & either Eastleigh 10k or Bournemouth Half (28 Mar) depending on whether I want a speed session or whether I feel like incorporating B'mouth into a long run.

I always wear a HRM. Don't necessarily look at it on the run, but I will have a look at it post run. At least I have the info at my disposal if I need it in the future.

29/12/2009 at 17:23

Hi Christina

 Hope you are well

BR- is correct there are Drills you can do to try and correct the problem, ie heel flicks, high knee's fast feet, also making a concise effort on your easy runs to try to correct the problem, the only problem with that is the second you put your self under pressure ie a race we tend to revert back to our old bad habbits, can I suggest that if the above does not correct the problem, you seek advice from the Luzoade team phyio, how might be able to help, have you changed your shoes recently ?

 I would not get to bogged down with times at this stage we have 16 weeks of training/racing a head of us !

I am more than happy with your racing schedule, and to be honest would like you to spend January getting in to the training programme, but happy to work around any race you might want to do ?

29/12/2009 at 17:34
Scruffmeister wrote (see

TS, was your 2.54 at Abo?

I learnt a lot from training for Abo this year. I just didn't do enough work at or above race pace. I will use the same basic schedule, but might merge it a little with the Garmin 3hr. The thing I like about the Garmin one is that it gives very specific times for each run, making working out the required pace easy.  The schedule I used before said something like '10m steady'. What's 'steady'? 8m/m? 7.30m/m? 7m/m? It's open to a lot of (mis)interpretation.

My planned races this year pre-VLM are the Heartbreak Half (31 Jan), Lytchett 10 (14 Feb), Silverstone Half (14 Mar), & either Eastleigh 10k or Bournemouth Half (28 Mar) depending on whether I want a speed session or whether I feel like incorporating B'mouth into a long run.

I always wear a HRM. Don't necessarily look at it on the run, but I will have a look at it post run. At least I have the info at my disposal if I need it in the future.

Yes it sure was at Abingdon....

If you look  HERE

you will find the training paces. You can also adjust your finish time up and down, which is what I used for Abo this year....and it worked for me...

My planned pre VLM are Stubbington 10K, Ryde 10M, Bramley 20, Fleet 1/2 and Eastleigh 10k...

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