Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Christina (sub-3:00)

They're trying to be polite Moraghan!

80MPW is a fairly high level of training (particularly for an athlete like JBFAR who is quick for a lady but not lightening)- I remember having analysed Paul's training at one point. I got his schedule and it looked very scary with 100+ mile weeks on- then I broke it down and actually had a look and reckoned he was running about 650 minutes a week (6:30mm) -only 50 minutes more than my 80mpw! Difference was the average pace was about a minute quicker- same as he would run a marathon about a minute quicker.

So if JBFAR is doing 80- guessing she would averaging around 8:30mm then she'd be running 680 minutes per week or more minutes per week than Paul was in the build up to London.

 You're also talking about building up an athlete who hasn't run a huge amount of volume, and if those RW schedules are a fair measure of her regular mileage, doubling the volume she's handled before (at least in running terms) within 3 and a half months given a two week taper- to my mind an athlete could possibly hold that volume increase but it'd all have to be done a) Very slowly (i.e. little at even MP) and b) split it doubles and finally c) without a decent long-run. IN short she'd either be working so hard to get the mileage in she wouldn't be able to include any marathon specific work or b) she'd get the marathon specific work in (long tempoes, long runs, progressive MWLR etc.) and her body would be so fried from putting it all in and dealing with the extra mileage there'd be little useful progress until about 6 months down the line.

Apologies for talking about you in the third person JBFAR!

Looking at RW schedule I'm struck by in week 5- "16 miles in 2:00 - slow"  personally I certainly wouldn't find running 16 miles at MP+30 seconds slow- it'd definitely be doable but it wouldn't be slow!

I fully agree what all have said about JBFAR needing to build up slowly, but she does have 22 years of some kind of running behind her and a 3:13 marathon so is not starting from scratch.

JBFAR - I remember you saying over a month ago when you found out you were doing this programme that Paul wanted you to be up to 50 miles a week before the programme started, when the programme starts in the low 40's.  Is Paul going to add in the odd 2nd run do you think to 'tweak' the plan?

HH - 650 mins is just under 11 hours, which I would think is about right for a top level triathlete.

Perhaps if JBFAR needs to run more than the flimsy looking schedule suggests, then she needs to be thinking about running surfaces - i.e. soft off road ones rather than tarmac.  Do you do most of your training on or off road JBFAR?

That certainly woke me up reading all that but I guess this is what it’s all about. Sub 3 is serious territory.

I read the sub 3 schedule and to me it sounded pretty daunting and I would certainly hope to go sub 3 after using it but I don’t think that my lifestyle will give me the chance to put it to the test. So I’ll let JBFAR do it for me.  

Good luck JBFAR with the training and more importantly, with this thread. Listen to your coach, listen to your body and above all else, have fun. I don’t think it will be easy but I think you have every chance of success.  

Just to add my views on the RW Sub 3 training schedule debate....

How many people on here have followed the schedule to the book and then failed to get a sub 3 from a marathon?

Not wanting to go on like a broken record...however, for my first marathon last year I followed the program and didn't miss or add any extra sessions, I completed all the race distances it recommended and met all of the monthly goals:

• Sub 38 min 10k or sub 30 min 5M (Week 4)

• Complete a run of around 2 hours 20 mins (Week 7)

• A sub-1:23 half-marathon (Week 10)

• A serious taper and a rewarding marathon

Before I started the schedule I was running at least 35-40 miles per week, over six or seven sessions as suggested.

I then went on to run a 2:58 marathon, yes the marathon was tough, but I feel the schedule worked just fine. 

Obviously JBFAR is being sponsored by Lucozade , RW and maybe even Garmin, so she is obliged to follow their schedule. I doubt if it is helping JBFAR confidence with everyone criticising the schedule that she is  possibly required to follow. 

This post is in no way meant to be offensive or as it says at the bottom I am not trying to slam anyone. I just feel we should let her coach tackle the difficult subject of what is the best course of action regarding the training. All of the advice and experiences from everyone else will no doubt motivate JBFAR and others who are looking for a successful VLM.    

Tony, well said mate.

When I did Abingdon I took lots of advice from BR, Hilly and Tony. Amongst others on the thread. And took bits out of My schedule I had used for FLM this year. I followed a schedule for FLM and failed! 3:02:47. Took what I had learned and bits of advice from other people and got 2:57:08 in Abingdon. At the end of the day I think its mostly down to the individual, you really have to want that sub3.

But now I want sub2:55.

marathon schedules are much of  muchness and its not rocket science after all, run some miles and run some more miles. As long as you do the long runs its very much about having no bad luck , having a big pair of NADs and being a "can" rather than a "cant" on the day.

I've never followed a schedule and dont intend to.

JBFAR is a decent aflete already and I dont think she'll be out off by folks commenting on her schedule.

Tony - I thought one of the points of having a thread like this was so we could comment / analyse and comment critically on the schedule being followed in relation to the individual athlete's needs.  It would be a pretty anodyne thread if all people said were `well done you' or `you're so fast' or `good luck'.  Whilst these things are great encouragement on a project like this, the fact that this is a public thread is that training is up for debate and discussion.

It's good you've had success following the same plan as JBFAR, which is a positive.  In my experience men in general can get away with fewer miles than women in aiming for a sub-3, but there are always the exceptions.  Tracey Morris got down to 2:33 off not much more than 60mpw, so it also depends on natural ability and fitness background the athlete has.

I agree it is best to let the coach / mentor tackle the issue of how best to tackle the training, but if RW did not want an open discussion then it would be an email discussion or a thread where only certain people had posting access.  Not seen that before and not read any previous threads like these where comment and analysis of the training was not welcomed.

BR - I knew this would happen, its very difficult to say what you mean on forums as such.... all I was trying to put across that the schedule does work. i.e addressing the other side of the discussion, which up to now seems to be very one sided.

I was just thinking that if I was in JBFAR shoes and about embark on a massive goal, how confident I would be with training schedule if all that was posted was negative about it and I had yet to start it!

As I said in my previous post

This post is in no way meant to be offensive or as it says at the bottom I am not trying to slam anyone. I just feel we should let her coach tackle the difficult subject of what is the best course of action regarding the training. All of the advice and experiences from everyone else will no doubt motivate JBFAR and others who are looking for a successful VLM.

I have gained so much great advice and info from the likes of you and Hilly. The majority of it has improved my running no end. So in answer to your questions yes it is an open forum, were comment and analysis is key to its success, which I look forward to over the next few months.

Time to put the keyboard down.... of to the club to smash out some k reps.... 

I don't feel slammed in any way Tony

There has already been discussion about JBFAR adding second runs to the schedule, so there is already a realisation that the schedule as it stands may need some tweaking.  Liz Yelling has done the same for her mentee on the sub 3:15 challenge thread.

This will be a really interesting thread as someone with an excellent multi-sport fitness base tries to convert that fitness into marathon specific fitness.

Christina states ... 

hold the Guinness World Record for Fastest Marathon Dressed as a Super Heroine (3:13, London Marathon 2008

i hate to be a pain in the rear end .... ( after all i don't understand running ) but, may i say, 13 minutes is a hell of a chunk, it's 30 seconds faster  EVERY mile, get a mile wrong, and it makes it more to produce

There's going to have to be some real serious, physical and mental stamina focus or am i wrong, plus it's all on the day

can't find it right now but there's a comment that HILLY came out with back a bit , which should make people think seriously hard

Paul Evans will acess everything and monitor everything obviously, but come close to the time say ??last 8 weeks

the preperation will need to be stuck to rigerously

BTW, I ain't trying to be patronising either

i have mailed her .. send our very best wishes 

Hang on..

i thought the men now a days do all cooking and cleaning

yes.SF,  i hope the ironman endurance holds the key

Hi Christina,

I hope you have had a good Christmas. Is sounds like you had a good run on Boxing Day? I definately ate way to much for X-mas dinner to even consider any exercise! Do you have a races/training planned for new years day?!

I was sat here LMAO when i read that !!

going back to the marathon though

although part of Abingdon is twice on that bumpy path now - but also even on the old course

my PB pushing Phil is Abingdon in 4:03, and twice now i've been on for sub 4, and started losing it with  4, 3, 2 & 1 to go,

with ALL my expereince i could not hold it

So lets all hope and pray that Christina will be nice and positive but not compleceant

i'm sure she do well

mick don't forget that Christina also has a top coach, sports scientist and the forum behind her.

No disrespect but you only had the forum(s) behind you!

yes i know - i know what your saying

i have thought all this out

I might get on chair one day, and let phil or some one push us or me

good luck with yours EP

BTW, are you Exil Pixie from Ashby area ??