Long runs, speed sessions... and a pair of rather tight leggings.
hi Steve. love the 5 points!
re no 2- distance endurance.. I know many say you don't need carbs/gels for a 10 miler, but I have found that anything over 70mins and I start flagging, even if I have a good pre run snack. By trial n error I found that if I have some jelly beans or a gel after 60mins I feel much better. My favs are extreme sports jelly beans (cherry flavour), they have a kick of caffiene too!
Looking forward to your recipe slot
Hi, loving your picture from NYE and of the track....wish we had a track like that in york.
Fingers crossed Ruth will recommend bacon as the ultimate training fuel!
RunnyRunRun wrote (see)
Love reading the bit about Top 5 things - fab post!!
Love reading the bit about Top 5 things - fab post!!
Thanks RRR - feel free to use and abuse on your own thread!
RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)
Hi Steve Congratulations on the forum so far. I have enjoyed reading through all the posts and glad to hear less chat about bacon as the weeks have moved on! My name is Ruth and I am the Asics Pro Team Dietitian. I have worked with athletes now for 12 years from young developing athletes to Olympic level athletes and enjoy the challenges that sports nutrition brings; research continues to move at a pace, but often getting the basics right will have the greatest results throughout training and on on race day. Good nutrition will benefit immunity, motivation and recovery. A sucessful race day is dependant on a well practiced nutrition plan. Please feel free to post typical daily food and drink consumption, including meal & snack times as well as sleeping and training times. Also include any recent dietary changes. You are in safe hands with Sam. I look forward to see how your journey will progress over the coming few months. I tend to come onto the forums a couple of times a week (likely to be Monday & Thursday) and try to answer all nutrition questions. Hi also to Sleepy Bear, Tenjiso, msc, Oscarr and others from the last couple of years! Great as always to have the support of everyone posting on forums. Ruth
Congratulations on the forum so far. I have enjoyed reading through all the posts and glad to hear less chat about bacon as the weeks have moved on! My name is Ruth and I am the Asics Pro Team Dietitian. I have worked with athletes now for 12 years from young developing athletes to Olympic level athletes and enjoy the challenges that sports nutrition brings; research continues to move at a pace, but often getting the basics right will have the greatest results throughout training and on on race day. Good nutrition will benefit immunity, motivation and recovery. A sucessful race day is dependant on a well practiced nutrition plan.
Please feel free to post typical daily food and drink consumption, including meal & snack times as well as sleeping and training times. Also include any recent dietary changes.
You are in safe hands with Sam. I look forward to see how your journey will progress over the coming few months. I tend to come onto the forums a couple of times a week (likely to be Monday & Thursday) and try to answer all nutrition questions.
Hi also to Sleepy Bear, Tenjiso, msc, Oscarr and others from the last couple of years! Great as always to have the support of everyone posting on forums.
Nice to meet you! Happy to post typical food and drink consumption - will knock something together once I get home from my run this evening.
What sort of distances do we need to be running when we need to start thinking about e.g. eating more carbs? And how much would we need to increase any intake by? (This is a genuine question, I'm not just looking for an excuse to eat more pasta!)
Ten - I reckon we can suffer together then
I reckon sharing the daily food intake may actually shame me into maknig some healthier choices... could be a good thing for me! As I said in an earlier post, I really am looking at lots of different ways that I can improve my running and nutrition is definitely a big thing I can look at
How's training going?
Happy new year! Well done on the Christmas cake and wine - that's valuable race fuel
Yes, I'm definitely seeing the benefits of running the slower runs a lot slower! I was shocked at how slow we did those runs with you at bootcamp - I've always done my long runs at a faster pace... and ended up being very fatigued as a result...
Re the speed and the distance endurance sessions, I was using "difficult" and "easy" very much as relative terms - I don't think I found the 10 miles "difficult" as such, it was more that I felt like I had to put more into that session than e.g. the interval session. I probaby need to improve on my distance endurance more than on other areas, but I don't think it is going to be a problem...
The mileage has felt really good, thanks. my gut feeling is (probably going to regret this!) that if you increased it, I don't think it would be a problem for me.
If anything, I have generally felt throughout the sessions that I have been running well within myself and would have been able to go a bit faster/further if needed. Obviously, I don't want to do too much, too soon and end up injured, but I could probably do a bit more.
The hamstring actually feels 100% fine now - it was just a little niggly for a few days. I don't have a roller - will have to look at getting one! Will let you know if it rears it's head again...
jenf wrote (see)
hi Steve. love the 5 points! re no 2- distance endurance.. I know many say you don't need carbs/gels for a 10 miler, but I have found that anything over 70mins and I start flagging, even if I have a good pre run snack. By trial n error I found that if I have some jelly beans or a gel after 60mins I feel much better. My favs are extreme sports jelly beans (cherry flavour), they have a kick of caffiene too! Looking forward to your recipe slot
Yeah, as has become increasingly apparent, my diet isn't amazing - I reckon, for me, just eating the right things will boost my endurance... My longer runs are starting to get over 10 miles now so I was planning on grabbing a couple of gels - I used them on my second half mara but not the first and really noticed the difference...
Haha going to cook up a storm tonight so, if it tastes nice, I'll see what I can do! Feel free to share any yummy recipes you have! Always willing to try new things
sarah osborne wrote (see)
Hi, loving your picture from NYE and of the track....wish we had a track like that in york. Fingers crossed Ruth will recommend bacon as the ultimate training fuel!
Yes, I am so lucky to have this just down the road - there's an Olympic standard swimming pool too. They knocked down all the old stuff in the run up to the Olympics and built this amazing new facility which was used by the Japanese swim team as a training camp.
The best part is, it is Council run so it is literally a couple of quid a session and no membership fees!!
Hmm... unlikely, but it's nice to have a dream What do you reckon Ruth?
PAUL FORDE wrote (see)
Hi all Unfortunately I've had the dreaded 'lurgies' the past few days so haven't been able to run. Just had an email from Sweatshop which says that in Saturdays Telegraph there's a voucher for ??10 off any purchases over ??25 - happy spending! Paul
Sorry to hear you haven't been well - hope you feel better soon!
Let us know when you're back in training...
I've had a touch of norovirus over the past few days and my old friend ‘runner’s knee’ keeps making an appearance when cooling down from interval and tempo runs ...not the best start to my training plan in the new year but I'm hoping to get back on track over the weekend! This weekend will be my 42nd parkrun. One of my marathon goals is to wear my '50' shirt for the marathon.
I'm interested to see how you get on with fuelling yourself during long runs Steve. I've not been a fan of gels when running my halfs but I often grab jelly beans of chunks of banana. Hydration and fuel is something I don’t really consider and just grab when I feel the need. If you get any tips on how many miles you run before taking gels etc. I’d be interested to know. Ta!
Not a bad strategy KatyLo, to 'just grab when you feel the need' in terms of hydration. The latest guidelines are to drink to thirst, not on a specific schedule. That said, it does worry me a bit when someone says they aren't ever thirsty when they run. If you're going to be out there for 2.5,3,4,5 hours or more, undoubtedly need to take fluid on board.
Thanks for the training feedback Steve. I might have a bit of a play with next few weeks. Are you sure you were only doing 15-25km per week before? It seems so little for you to be already very comfortable with 30-35km per week and wanting more!
It does not seem unreasonable to go from around 15mpw to 20mpw and for it to feel comfortable.
Thanks Sam! A quick search on the website conjured up all sorts of advice. I find gels fiddly but I’m a big fan of beans! I generally don’t take water unless I’m out running for over 1hr30 but it’s time to start practicing.
Steve loves bacon wrote (see)
Ten - I reckon we can suffer together then How's training going?
I'm really enjoying my training plan so far - the higher mileage runs seem to suit me. Next week looks pretty tough, starting with 9m with 5m @ threshold, and finishing with 16m including the last 10m @ MP. There's another 10m run midweek too. It will be my highest mileage week ever (45m), though I may have to finish it on my knees No wonder the following week is a recovery week.
Looks like Sam is on the verge of upping your mileage.
Sam - seeing your comment about hydration...... I take a water bottle and a gel with me on my long runs. My longest run so far has been 14m and I haven't felt the need for the gel, and I only drink about half the bottle of water (about 125ml). I haven't suffered afterwards and have been able to complete all sessions to the prescribed intensity. I do eat breakfast and try to be fully hydrated before I set-out on the longer runs. Am I pushing my luck and should I be forcing myself to drink more during the run?
Hi Ruth, great to be in touch again after last year. I still use the carb loading diet before big races you gave us plus all the other useful tips and the in-race carb intake info.
Steve - Ruth will be a great help to get your nutrition right, she even turned around Rosie last year . Looks like your speed work is going well. As the weeks roll on the long runs will increase to improve your endurance.
Ten: here is my take on hydration.
Start well hydrated - seems obvious but not everyone does it. I will have a 500ml bottle of sports drink close to me in the few hours leading up to the race. I sip it in the car on the way up, the train wherever and stop abput 30 mins before the start - time to settle the bladder.
Then I will start with about 200 -250ml in hand - that way I can comfortably get past the scrum at the 1st water stop without disrupting my rythmn. By about 5 miles that will have gone....
Here is the thing - for me, it is more about the energy in the drink than the fluid if that makes sense. So I'm drinking more for the easily digestible carbs than the H2O. Water gives me nothing on a run.....OK, I know I need the hydration but I hydrate and fuel up at the same time.
For VLM there are water points at every mile from M3 and sports drink (Lucozade) at 5,10,15,19, and 23M. From memory these are smaller bottles (330ml) so you could pick up 1.6 litres on course and I seem to remember doing exactly that although I think I just ran with the last one and drank it after I finished.
These smaller bottles would have maybe 20g of carb of which 11g as sugar, so potential 100g in total. I think that is about 450 or so calories. If you are still with me on this, then I calculate that I need about 3,300 cals to get round and if I have correctly loaded my system I should start with about 2,700 cals on board.
Deduct 3,300 requirement from 2,700 = 600 calory deficit to be made up on route. Now I hope you can see how important the 400-450 cals that I can get for free from the sports drink is in the equation. A few gels 6+, evenly spaced out for me, some jelly beans & raisins etc I am on my way.....
I appreciate that I might have egg on my face "speaking" ahead of Ruth who is on here as an experienced professional, so I stand ready to be corrected, but the above got me safely around 2 maras last year without the dreaded "wall" and pretty much with negative splits in both. So unless I am way off beam, I'll be taking the same approach in the spring.
Final caveat: this supposes that we have moderate temperature no higher than low to mid teens C. Any higher and we would all need to adjust and yes, I would take on more water!
Hi Sam.....I was just wondering when it comes to a rest day/cross training day, would resistence/strength training be acceptable to do on that day?
I was also wondering if you recommend doing resistence/strength training prior to any of the runs or if you would actually advise against it ? many thanks
Thanks for all the comments! I have read them all and will catch up properly tomorrow - been a bit of a hectic day so I'm just going to post this evening's run quickly for now...
Week 3 - Friday
5 MILE FAST (SUGGESTED 1 MILE EASY, 3 MILES FAST, 1 MILE EASY)
Easy pace = 9:10 - 10:15 m/m
Fast pace = 8:05 - 8:20
Again, did a huuuge long warm up to try and protect the hammy, but didn't feel it at all so I'm not too worried now.
The first mile at easy pace was... well, easy! Got through it in 9mins 20secs which was a nice pace and felt very comfortable.
I moved into the "fast" section and did the three miles as follows:
Mile 1 - 7mins 56secs
Mile 2 - 7mins 52 secs
Mile 3 - 7mins 41secs
The fast section felt good and I kept my form well throughout... I've spent the day on Twitter talking to Sam and Ady about the Parkrun I'm doing next week and the times we are both aiming for so I spent most of it thinking about that and trying not to beat my 5k PB in the middle of this run!! It went by pretty quick and I felt like I could have carried on - was a bit disappointing to have to drop down to "easy" pace to be honest
The last easy mile was done in 8mins 48secs and, again, felt nice and comfortable.
Anyway, that's your lot for now - will catch up and post a bit more tomorrow!
Hi Mike - I've printed out your notes about race day hydration. I'll have to go through it a few times to digest the information (no pun intended - for once).
Just to be clear, my more immediate concern is about hydration while training. I'm interested in Sams (and anybody else's) view on the fact that I do not feel the need for gels, or even very much water, during medium-long runs (up to 14m so far, and I'm not expecting today's 15m run to be much different). This is distinct from race-day strategy, or preparing for the race during a training run (I'll do that in the 18/20m runs). Sam seemed to be suggesting that she thought that this was a bad idea?
Sarah - this is not a direct attempt to answer your question, but last year I injured myself having done some reasonably heavy weight squats on an XT day, followed by a speed session the following day. Just something to bear in mind when constructing a program.
Steve - great splits! You appear to be cruising. Does that mean you are going to race the parkrun to go for your best 5k time?
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