The Road to Paris - On a Plateau - Asics Target 26.2 Training

The highs, lows (and everything in between) of my 16 week Paris Marathon training plan.

501 to 520 of 1,530 messages
21/01/2013 at 12:45

Malcs……do you think that the lack of drink played a part in your previous marathon attempts and was a reason you had the cramps in the last few miles? I do find by drinking a lot during the evening, that I’m worse than a 90 year old during the night and have to get up several times! Unlike 90 year olds I do find I can still sleep in later than 5am in the mornings, so this hasn’t affected my sleep yet!

How is the running going now? Are you back to running normally now you’re over the worst of your illness?

Alex…….Good to hear from you. I found my run on Sunday more tricky than Saturday due to the slush freezing over and becoming more uneven. Luckily I’d managed to get my long run out of the way on Saturday and only had 6 miles to do Sunday. Did you manage to get your runs in ok?

I only have my road shoes I got at the Store Day before Xmas. I have my Bupa Fitness Assessment this Friday so I might take a trip to the Asics Store again and see what choices they have. Or I might by another pair of Cumulus so I have two pairs to train in.

I’m looking forward to Saturday and catching up with everyone else. It should be fun…..and the mileage looks reasonable too!

Sarah……..I can see why you like Thai food. It’s a favourite of mine too. I did some cookery classes when I was over there, but unfortunately these haven’t proved too successful as I’d still rather eat out at a Thai restaurant rather than eat my own attempt at cooking it!

As for the boiled pig skin………my gag reflex struggled to cope with it. But as not to offend when I had it cooked for me, I’d always attempt to eat some of it. There was hair attached sometimes, which was one of the many reasons why I struggled! I never managed to eat a whole plate of this. My mother would be ashamed – leaving food on my plate!

Good work on doing such a long run on the treadmill. Anything over an hour is impressive, but to do that much is mightily good! Do you struggle running for so long on a treadmill. Do you find you run differently on a treadmill? I found I got different aches and pains after running on a treadmill, normally around the groin. I’ve never suffered from this when doing my training outside.

Today is a cross-training day. I hope to do a leg strengthening workout tonight, instead of the normal exercise bike session.

Good luck on your train this week!

21/01/2013 at 12:58

Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Sunday 20th January 2013

Ruth, I sincerely apologise. Due to time constraints, I broke and bought ‘fast-food’ on the way to catch a train at lunch. It was either this, or feel the wrath of Mrs. Shady by being late for our afternoon out in the Big Smoke. I learnt a long time ago that I should choose any other option over being late for my wife!  

9:00am – Cup of tea (no breakfast as I needed to get out and run!)

10:00am – Run (6 miles in snow – again!). Water after run.

12:00am – Lunch – SUBWAY! Not just a 6 incher either - a full ft long sub. I did go for the healthiest option available – Veggie Delight with Honey Mustard dressing on Wheat, which according to the calorie count info was around the 500 mark. Bottle of water.

4:30pm – A small pack of M&S sushi. Train home was delayed and found a nice stash of reduced goodies at M&S. It’s not that often I get to shop in such upmarket supermarkets!

5:00pm - Cup of tea. Pint of squash. Feeling de-hydrated, so another pint of squash straight after!

8:00pm – Dinner – Burger (95% Angus Beef according to the packet!) in wholemeal bread with mature cheddar. Radishes with wheatberries and giant couscous salad. Pint of water.

9:00pm – Cup of tea.  

10:00pm – Cup of green tea and an early night!

21/01/2013 at 15:30
Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Malcs……do you think that the lack of drink played a part in your previous marathon attempts and was a reason you had the cramps in the last few miles? I do find by drinking a lot during the evening, that I’m worse than a 90 year old during the night and have to get up several times! Unlike 90 year olds I do find I can still sleep in later than 5am in the mornings, so this hasn’t affected my sleep yet!

How is the running going now? Are you back to running normally now you’re over the worst of your illness?

It could be a factor Ady. I think I drank plenty during the races themselves but maybe that wasn't enough given that I was under hydrated to start.

I don't really fancy trips to the loo in the night but I might have to risk it to give this drinking mullarky a try. I'm on a pint and a half so far today. Don't think I'll make Sarah's massive 4 litre target but if I can knock back 3 pints that would be a big improvement.

Running last week went really well thanks. Started quite tough but I managed 6 and 10 miles in the snow at the weekend on Sat & Sun and felt fine. If you've ever been out injured or ill before you'll know that the feeling of coming back and getting back into your stride is such a massive relief. I have a way to go but I'm very happy going into what will be week 2 of 13 for me now.

Regarding your food diary - I know you want to try and lose a few pounds but you seem to be eating way less than I do. I looked at Alex and Sarah's threads and they appear to be on a similar intake. When I'm marathon training I usually eat shed loads - particularly on the weekends when I have the long runs. I wonder if I've got this wrong too? I don't put any weight on so I have never been concerned about it until now.

It was always my thought that you could eat loads when marathon training - so long as it was relatively healthy. I'm not talking cakes and biscuits but loads of pasta, rice etc. bread, fruit loaf and teacakes, yoghurt and of course fruit. Maybe Ruth could shed some light - after we get a response on the hot cross buns of course! (no, I haven't given up on that one) 

21/01/2013 at 19:38
Malcs wrote (see)

Ruth - I'm interested to know your thoughts on the humble hot cross bun and its cousin the fruit teacake (sliced or unsliced, I don't care either way). Are these worthy snack candidates or are they on the nutritional black list?

I think these are worthy snack list for a marathon runner in training if not eating too many of them (or fried in lard). The problem for these sorts of snacks for a few people is those that really struggle to lose weight but in the right portion and as a snack most should  be able to have these in their diet, it is all about balance!

Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Wednesday 16th January 2013

I've changed. I never ever thought I'd be the person to eat trendy grains for meals. Today I ate them again! Maybe this healthy eating malarkey is going to dig its' heels in for a long stay!

6:45am Breakfast - Fruit and Fibre cereal with semi-skimmed milk. Glass of apple and fig juice.

7:45am - Cup of tea (with Splenda, which I try and not have every time!)

9:00am - Cup of tea, 500ml bottle of water.

11:15am - Banana, bottle of water, another cup of tea.

12:00pm - Lunch – Bulgar Wheat with cucumber, tomato and feta cheese mixed with a honey, white wine vinegar, chutney and olive oil dressing (just to add a little extra flavour). One of the benefits of making this in a large quantity - it cuts down the amount of time spent making my own lunches! Finished this off with a Clementine and water.

2:00pm - Cup of tea, bottle of water.

4:30pm – Cup of tea, bottle of water. No snack today in the afternoon as too busy with work.

6:00pm - Cross-Training - 18.4 miles in 1hr on exercise bike (see above for more details)

7:30pm – Dinner - Student night! Beans on toast with two eggs on a piece of wholemeal bread. A few shavings of parmesan on top.

8:30pm – Cup of tea, pint of water and the last slither of walnut and coffee cake (slightly bigger than yesterday's!).

10:00pm – Small glass of milk and the last few pistachios in the cupboard.

I was so impressed until post lunch and there it was.... 7.5 hours with no food, I am surprised you did not eat more in the evening than you did so on that front well done!
ZiggyTheSpider wrote (see)

Ady - I just thought I'd post to say how much I'm enjoying your thread (apart from that photo ).

Well done on your progress so far and good luck in the coming weeks.

Stick in with the weight loss. Over the last year I've lost about 20 pounds and during that time I've reduced by 5k PB from 25 min to 19 min 22 secs.

I'm still aiming to maybe lose another 5 pounds or so before the London Marathon.

However I'm interested in whether Ruth thinks there are any increased risk of injury or detrimental effects on training associated with a calorie reduced diet. How much weight is it safe to lose weekly during a marathon campaign?

Good luck again Ady!

A safe number for me to say is 1/2 lbs but if you have  a lot  of body fat to lose 1 Ibs a week, this way your immunity should s

21/01/2013 at 19:52
Malcs wrote (see)

Just tell them you are Shady Ady from the Asics 5 - they should step aside, you're a VIP for crying out loud! Darn peasants. Failing that, whip out the photo of you in the lycra, that'll scare them off 

...and if it doesn't then show them the pic of Bacon in his lycra, that's guaranteed to have them running for the door!

Malc - keep up this level of motivation for shady-Ady!
Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Thursday 17th January 2013

Mrs. Shady Ady is so good! After a very busy day at work and having to work late, I got home to find my dinner already prepared and waiting for me on the dining table. Maybe I should feign stressful, busy days at work every weekday from now on!

Not many carbs in my lunch, but as the size was bigger than the 'rabbit food' salads I was attempting to eat before, I had no issues with hunger pains.

6:45am - Breakfast - Fruit and Fibre cereal with semi-skimmed milk. Glass of tropical fruit juice.

8:00am - Cup of tea

9:30am - Cup of tea, 500ml bottle of water.

10:30am - Banana, bottle of water

12:00pm - Lunch – Leftover curry from the previous evening's dinner - carrot, courgette and chickpeas in a variety of curry spices haphazardly thrown into the mixing pot! It actually tasted better cold for lunch than it did for dinner the night before! Finished this off with a Clementine and water.

2:00pm - Cup of tea, bottle of water.

4:00pm – Cup of tea, bottle of water. Half eaten apple. Got called away to  a meeting and when I got back is had turned brown and manky looking!

7:30pm – Dinner - Steak, Roast Potatoes, Broccoli and Peas in a mint sauce. Pint of blackcurrant squash.

http://s3.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/403074/gallery/photo_(5).jpg?width=350

8:30pm – Cup of tea, pint of water and a small bowl of yogurt with a handful of dates, apricots and raisins.

10:00pm – Small glass of water.

Big Steak! I know you know... but more snacks during the day wold be good. A few boiled potatoes may have been the lower calorie option rather than those nice looking roasties.
Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Friday 18th January 2013

Ruth might not agree with my little food luxuries today but I think if I can eat healthy meals and snacks 6 days of the week, then the other 1 day I should be allowed a few questionable treats. This 24 hours started from Dinner tonight! Sorry Ruth!

6:45am - Breakfast - Fruit and Fibre cereal with semi-skimmed milk. Glass of red grape and pomegranate juice.

9:00am - Cup of Earl Grey tea

10:00am - Cup of Raspberry tea

11:15am - Banana, bottle of water

12:00pm - Run - 4.5 miles comfortable in snow (see above more for more details)

1:00pm - Lunch – Ainsley Harriot's finest Mediterranean couscous with feta cheese. I have say, couscous by itse

21/01/2013 at 20:02
RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)
Malcs wrote (see)

Ruth - I'm interested to know your thoughts on the humble hot cross bun and its cousin the fruit teacake (sliced or unsliced, I don't care either way). Are these worthy snack candidates or are they on the nutritional black list?

I think these are worthy snack list for a marathon runner in training if not eating too many of them (or fried in lard). The problem for these sorts of snacks for a few people is those that really struggle to lose weight but in the right portion and as a snack most should  be able to have these in their diet, it is all about balance!

Woo hoo, thanks Ruth - hot cross buns are back on the menu! 

Question for you Ruth - is Ady not on a huge calorie deficit on some days? If you do an hour of running at a comfortable pace does that not burn 600-800 cals? Should you look to replace these if you're not looking to lose weight?

I always thought it was the done thing to eat like a horse when marathon training

21/01/2013 at 20:11
Malcs wrote (see)
Well done shadester, mighty fine effort sir!

I managed 6 miles in the snow and it was wonderful! When it's fresh or melting it's great but I completely understand your worry about the frozen slippery stuff. Good to hear that conditions were in your favour.

I've been reading your food diaries and I've just noticed how much fluid you take on. The other day you had 4 bottles of water and two pints of squash plus numerous teas on top. I am way off that. I'm lucky if I have a pint of water a day. I have tea and coffee too plus milk with cereal bu that's it. I reckon I need to radically increase my fluid intake.

Did Ruth or Sam advise you on fluids or are you drinking the same as you always have?

PS yes, you definitely have to make more use of your celebrity status. Just make sure you have a copy of RW on you at all times. Should get you a table a the Ivy and VIP entry to most clubs at the very least!

Fluid. Everyone will be different but I think it is simple to know roughly how much is too much? and how much is too little?

  • Too much:  If you are peeing every 2 hours (sarah!) with a lot of volume and the colour is very pale/clear you are probably drinking too much but as Sarah mentioned drinking is a habit and if you are happy to drinks lots (without suffering fluid overload!) then no long term problem. If you where drinking 7-10 litre a day it may be a problem!
  • Too little: peeing every 5 hours or more &/or peeing small volume of dark urine/very concentrated (strong smell)  you should drink more.

You should look to be somewhere inbetween these too points!

I agree in drinking more in the days leading up to a race, always better to start hydrated.

Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Malcs……do you think that the lack of drink played a part in your previous marathon attempts and was a reason you had the cramps in the last few miles? I do find by drinking a lot during the evening, that I’m worse than a 90 year old during the night and have to get up several times! Unlike 90 year olds I do find I can still sleep in later than 5am in the mornings, so this hasn’t affected my sleep yet!

How is the running going now? Are you back to running normally now you’re over the worst of your illness?

Alex…….Good to hear from you. I found my run on Sunday more tricky than Saturday due to the slush freezing over and becoming more uneven. Luckily I’d managed to get my long run out of the way on Saturday and only had 6 miles to do Sunday. Did you manage to get your runs in ok?

I only have my road shoes I got at the Store Day before Xmas. I have my Bupa Fitness Assessment this Friday so I might take a trip to the Asics Store again and see what choices they have. Or I might by another pair of Cumulus so I have two pairs to train in.

I’m looking forward to Saturday and catching up with everyone else. It should be fun…..and the mileage looks reasonable too!

Sarah……..I can see why you like Thai food. It’s a favourite of mine too. I did some cookery classes when I was over there, but unfortunately these haven’t proved too successful as I’d still rather eat out at a Thai restaurant rather than eat my own attempt at cooking it!

As f

21/01/2013 at 20:18
Malcs wrote (see)
RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)
Malcs wrote (see)

Ruth - I'm interested to know your thoughts on the humble hot cross bun and its cousin the fruit teacake (sliced or unsliced, I don't care either way). Are these worthy snack candidates or are they on the nutritional black list?

I think these are worthy snack list for a marathon runner in training if not eating too many of them (or fried in lard). The problem for these sorts of snacks for a few people is those that really struggle to lose weight but in the right portion and as a snack most should  be able to have these in their diet, it is all about balance!

Woo hoo, thanks Ruth - hot cross buns are back on the menu! 

Question for you Ruth - is Ady not on a huge calorie deficit on some days? If you do an hour of running at a comfortable pace does that not burn 600-800 cals? Should you look to replace these if you're not looking to lose weight?

I always thought it was the done thing to eat like a horse when marathon training

It is a good question. As Shady-Ady has got weight to lose he needs a calorie deficit. Some people can eat a huge amount and never gain weight when training others need less. What I am trying to get Shady-Ady to do is to eat consistently as one day he eats too many calories the next not enough hence the 3 meals, 3 snack rule (healthy eating). The long gaps are not helping but he is addressing this!

If not looking to lose weight then yes you need to replace the calories and enjoy those teacakes.

Hope this helps!

21/01/2013 at 20:21

Cramps- only caused by fluid when very poor... more likely caused by increasing intensity/pace on tired legs at end of a race. Training can help for example, increasing pace at end of  long runs. I think it is usually a gap in the training. Sam may have more to add!

21/01/2013 at 20:22

Thanks Ruth for answering so many questions. It's very much appreciated indeed. I'll start reading through all of it now. I have just noticed on a couple of your posts that your message cuts off halfway through. I learnt this the hard way on my first posts, as I think there must be a word limit, which once reached automatically deletes the rest! 

I hope my wrists aren't too sore from being slapped since last week! 

21/01/2013 at 20:30

Malcs..........Good work on the drinking front! I hope you managed those 3 pints of the good stuff (water of course!).

Glad the running is back on the agenda as well. If I haven't ran for a few days, I feel like a new born sheep or gazelle taking it's first run and jumping randomly everywhere. I'm sure I look nothing like this though. Definitely not the same levels of grace!

It's very interesting what you are saying about the quantity of food I currently eat. I tend to try and eat what keeps me full (apart from earlier in my training when I was only having salads at lunch). I find now, even with my lunch time runs, my lunches and snacks keep me full. When I first start to feel hungry I try and drink something first now, just to make sure I'm not mistaking thirst for hunger.

In the past I would supplement my meals with deserts and I'd also pick at various foods as I got the main dinner ready. Now that I've cut this out, I've become accustomed to eating just my main dinner, followed an hour later or so by either a snack or yogurt.

I do increase my intake before a long run. I eat a dinner the night before that I know has a good amount of carbs in and my breakfast will always be porridge, normally supplemented with chai seeds. I've tried to resist overloading on jelly babies and Jaffa cakes at this stage of training!

Once my long run mileage gets above 18, then I think you will see a bigger difference in the amount of carbs I eat in the run-up to this run.

Very happy to see tea cakes and hot cross buns making the good food list! 

21/01/2013 at 20:32

Yes, echo that. Really appreciate you taking the time Ruth. In particular it's a great relief to hear that fruit based bread products aren't on the blacklist. Bad news in this department would have ruined me.

I think you may be right about the tired legs and cramps issue. I'm sure I had enough fluids. That said, I took different salt tabs one year and the cramps were much worse. I also had muscle spasms in my arms which was a bit scary.

21/01/2013 at 20:38
RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)
I was so impressed until post lunch and there it was.... 7.5 hours with no food, I am surprised you did not eat more in the evening than you did so on that front well done!

 I know, I know. My bad! I have been trying to make a concerted effort to eat snacks regularly, but if I have a short turnaround to get my work completed, I struggle to focus on anything but this, until it's done.

I also struggle to eat snacks if I'm not feeling hungry. I then find myself eating them only when I start to feel hungry, which messes the timing up between snacks and meals. I will continue to work on this!

21/01/2013 at 20:39
Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Malcs..........Good work on the drinking front! I hope you managed those 3 pints of the good stuff (water of course!).

Glad the running is back on the agenda as well. If I haven't ran for a few days, I feel like a new born sheep or gazelle taking it's first run and jumping randomly everywhere. I'm sure I look nothing like this though. Definitely not the same levels of grace!

Thanks. I managed 2 pints so far. Need to get a bit more down me then do the 'smelly wee' test Ruth has suggested. I'll get Mrs Malcs to assist with assessing the fragrance. Or maybe if I make a sample and waft it under the kids' noses when they're asleep, if they wake with a start I know it's not good. I can get a another pint down me while they phone Child Line.

"I feel like a new born sheep or gazelle taking it's first run and jumping randomly everywhere" ?  LOL - just in case it's not patently obvious we don't want to see any pictures or videos of this curious behaviour!

Edited: 21/01/2013 at 20:40
21/01/2013 at 20:54

 

RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)
Big Steak! I know you know... but more snacks during the day wold be good. A few boiled potatoes may have been the lower calorie option rather than those nice looking roasties. 

Shady_Ady wrote (see)

You are correct! This was a surprise meal prepared by Mrs. Shady Ady as I'd had a long stressful day at work. I'm too scared to mention this to her in case I never get such a surprise again! Boiled potatoes in the future though 

Consistency is the key as you say! I hope over the next few days you will see an improvement in this. I appreciate the honestness you are adding to this forum and in preparing me for Paris. 

Malcs.......haha......the fragrant pee test. If Mrs. Malcs can smell it from the living room, then you're in trouble. 

Enough of the pee talk! Is it just two pints of water you've drank today, or have you drank other drinks on top of that?

I can promise there will be no more embarrassing photos posted on here again - of any nature!

21/01/2013 at 21:02

Two pints of water and two teas - plus milk in the cereal. About to become 3 teas

Here's a question - we all know tea and coffee are diuretics but how much fluid would a single tea lose you? More than is in the tea itself? I've always wondered this. 

"smell it from the living room" I will have to try that!

21/01/2013 at 22:34
I went to a thai cooking course whilst in Thailand too, in Chang Mai. I still experiment now with thai cooking at home, i can do most things except pad thai....its just not the same as eating it in a thai restaurant.

Im very impressed with your strong stomach managing to eat some of the pig skin not to offend. I remember the first time I was served a rare steak. I really didnt think I could eat it with the blood running out of it but I didnt want to offend my partners grandmother at the time so I braved it. It was actually one of the nicest bits of meet i'd ever had. Now I have all my steak rare-medium rare!.

I do prefer running outdoors, but if its got to be done, I can do it on a treadmill and just dream about running outdoors instead whilst looking out of the windows and looking for tottie in the gym. I find my arms always ache when I have done a long run on the treadmill, but their fine out doors. I think its because I use them less so their held in flexion at the elbow for 2+ hours with little arm swing. I tried to move them alittle more yesterday and it did help.

So Malcs how are you feeling with the increased fluid on board? The information on tea and coffee always seems to be changing, one day your told that they dehydrate you as they make you pee out more than you take in, but then the next day someones telling you that its still fluid and it counts.....Im interested to see what Ruth thinks.
21/01/2013 at 22:57

22:52 - wee check

Colour: orange-ish, well somewhere between California Sands and Banana Dream 3 on the Dulux colour charts.  

Fragrance: not fragrant - mildly unpleasant but not abhorrent.

21/01/2013 at 23:01

Sarah - oddly I feel thirsty! I've managed 2.5 pints of water and 4 teas. I need to  have more to reach Ady's level but it's progress.

I have no chance of getting close to your intake though. If I even attempted that I fear the fluid would simply force its way out without permission. [edited as Mrs Malcs thought I was being too crude] 

Edited: 22/01/2013 at 08:42
22/01/2013 at 17:37

All this fluid talk is making me squirm in my chair and need to pay a visit 

But before I do....all drinks, including tea, coffee, soft drinks, milk etc all count towards your daily fluid intake - so although caffeinated drinks may have a diuretic effect, this is definitely offset by the amount of fluid you consume with the tea/coffee - so they don't leave you in deficit.

The 'drink to thirst' message in combination with Ruth's wee colour/volume advice and common sense (when did I last drink? How much did I drink?) are the surest way of finding the right volume for you. 

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