The Road to Paris - On a Plateau - Asics Target 26.2 Training

The highs, lows (and everything in between) of my 16 week Paris Marathon training plan.

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19/12/2012 at 14:47

Interesting, DS2 - and glad you enjoyed bootcamp training! I feel that more mileage (though obviously, the term 'more' is relative...)  just leaves you less able to benefit from the effects of the speedwork/tempo work and less able to achieve really high quality long runs. I am a particular 'non-fan' (?!) of the midweek long-ish run, which often falls between a hard sesh on Tueday and Thursday. I feel it is more detrimental than benefical in many cases. However, in Ady's revised programme the mileage is closer to 30-35 than 25-30 now...

19/12/2012 at 14:50

Seren, hi

We all agreed that there was no way the tool was suitable for an elite standard runner such as Ricky, aiming for 2.20 and the plan would not have been generated by MyAsics.

As to your other point - sorry if it's misleading but as I'm sure all would agree, the important thing is that the coachees have a programme that both they and the coaches feel confident is going to give them best chance of achieving their goals and that is what we have now done. Let's now move forwards!

19/12/2012 at 14:54

Yes, Rosie's mileage was very high before you stepped in so I can see how it works in a case like that.   For me I couldn't get under 3:30 either but finally did it in 2011 running about 40 mpw but I don't think I could have made my big improvements staying on that mileage and have gradually increased it ever since.  I would question that whether those who pb on a low mileage could continue to do so without the increase, and if they are reaching their true potential by staying on a low mileage?

 

19/12/2012 at 14:57

Hi Sam, yes, I remember discussing that midweek MLR run with you from P&D. I'm not sure about it at all. Last week I did (for the first time this winter) a 6mile run with 4 at tempo pace on Tuesday and 4 x 1 mile on Thursday within a 6 miler on Thursday. I couldn;t have contemplated a longish run between. I did a 10 miler this week but only because I'm trying to build the base 10% higher and don't like to mix too much intensity into it at the same time. So this week a bit more mileage but nothing very quick.

For me the jury's out on the long midweek run. I don't think I will follow P&D although lots of the guys on Sub 3 and Sub 3:15 threads use them religiously. I am looking at using the RW Sub 3:15 Advanced plan. That looks a bit closer to what I'm used to!

19/12/2012 at 15:04

DSanta- 6 mile run with 4 @ tempo on Tuesday and 4 x 1 mile on Thursday?  Is that P&D?  Sounds a bit harsh. Which week is it of which schedule?

19/12/2012 at 15:10

it's neither Brolish. I have been base building for a good few weeks and just wanted to mix it up a little. This is the first time in years I've trained properly so wanted to get an idea of what I am capable of!

Back to plodding this week!

19/12/2012 at 15:22

Oh, ok. P&D would never have you do two sessions like this with MLR in the middle.

mcs
19/12/2012 at 15:23

All the best to you ADY for the training I am sure with Sam behind you watching and guiding you will do fine.......depends on age, weight, injury, physique, experience and time available for a recreational runner and so many other factors when it comes to training for a marathon. These schedules be it on here RW or Asics are all a little interesting and with experience you need to tweak them. Liz Yelling in 2010 and Sam last year both gave me great advice on the schedules I was following at the time, and though I have only run two full marathons (4.35 2010 then 4.08 at a very hot Edinburgh 2012 aaagggghhh annoying me very much) the half marathon times have all improved due to following schedules and tweaking according to variables. (PB GNR 2012 1.42) I am looking to go sub four this next year all being well and I am using an Ultimate RW schedule at the moment aiming for March 9th 21 mile Fell Race a marathon equivalent due to hills.
ALL THE BEST ADY you are privileged to have this opportunity all the best. 

seren nos    pirate
19/12/2012 at 15:30

I'm sure Ady will do well with the personalised schedules.going to be a great journey

Cheerful Dave    pirate
19/12/2012 at 16:03
I saw Minni kissing Santa Claus wrote (see)
I would question that whether those who pb on a low mileage could continue to do so without the increase, and if they are reaching their true potential by staying on a low mileage?

But Minni, you also said that your increase in mileage was accompanied by more specific training.  Some people will improve without increasing the time they spend training by improving how they train - finding the key sessions that work for them.  Mileage will increase with speed anyway - Ady's 40 mile week (or was it 39?) for a 3:30 marathon will be broadly equivalent to 50 miles for a 2:30 runner in terms of time spent training (and that's the limiting factor for most of us).  

I'd disagree with Sam that one 20 mile run is enough.  For me that would be a recipe for dying on my feet at 20 miles, but then I don't know Ady as well as Sam does and I'm no expert on such things.

19/12/2012 at 16:19

Hi Sam, really appreciate you taking time to shed more light on the thinking behind project Shady. I think you should be commended for incorporating a hangover day on Jan 1st - clearly you have a good understanding of who you're working with There is no burger day in the plan however, an omission that nobody seems to have picked up on yet. (sorry Ady, couldn't resist)

I also really enjoyed bootcamp. Unfortunately it was all over so quickly I didn't manage to ask you whether you thought my ambition to get from 4hr to sub 3:30 was achievable or completely insane  When you came to ask whether you had my HM time correct I didn't see you scurry away sniggering - so were you just being kind or would you agree that with a HM of 1:34 a sub 3:30 should be possible?

I have spoken to alot of people on the forums who have been extremely helpful and encouraging. Most suggest that I have the speed but need to work alot on endurance. The consensus seems to be to get more time on my feet and also to slow down. 

Originally I thought I might follow Ady's or Sarah's plans but maybe theirs is focusing on improving where they are weakest which may not necessarily work for me.

What would you suggest?

One things is for sure, if I run 4hrs on the dot one more time I may need psychiatric help. Perhaps it's Victor not you I should be speaking to?

Edited: 19/12/2012 at 16:37
19/12/2012 at 16:41

What a day to be stuck in meetings. I'm sure I only had 40 messages on here the last time I looked! Maybe I get more responses on here when I'm not posting!

I'm now off to another (teetotal-ish) Xmas party, so might not have the chance to post properly today. Tomorrow night though Mrs. Shady Ady is out, and I have the evening to myself. So what better way to spend it than catch up on this sordid marathon love affair!

Malcs - I'm not sure you realised how lucky you were on that train back from Birmingham with Anabelle, Mrs. Shady Ady and I. You got to witness the last Fast-Food burger passing through my lips until I hit my target weight and target time. Saying that though, I am only 5 days into the challenge and still in that honeymoon stage of devotedly eating healthy food! I have lost 2 lbs already, and that's just from cutting out the process cr*p I use to eat.........only another 14 to go

I swapped tomorrows run to today, due to having commitments tomorrow. i will post more about this later, plus a link to my Garmin Connect. My target was 5 miles on a hilly course at 8mins per mile. I did 5 miles on a slightly hilly course (running up and down the only hill near where I work) at 7:54mins per mile.

One good thing about this competition is I didn't even question going out for a run at lunch, even though it was raining. Normally I would swap the run to the evening to increase my chances of doing it in the dry! Very comfortable actually, although found myself pushing myself harder going up the hill and then struggling to slow my pace when coming down the hill.

Thanks for your comments and debating so far. Thanks also Sam for the training schedule and your input on this forum page. As always, it's very much appreciated!

19/12/2012 at 16:42

malcs - although I haven't known you very long it is clear to everyone who comes on these forums thinks you are already certifiable!

I reckon you've hit the nail on the head though. We are all different and we have to find what suits us best. That is the benefit of having a good coach!

Doesn't hurt us questioning though!

I reckon if you put 1:34 HM into any of the calculators it would point to a Sub 3:30 Malcs, as long as you get the necessary endurance in.

19/12/2012 at 16:47

Malcs- I've just run 3:26:49 off a 1:34 half so it must be possible!

19/12/2012 at 16:54

Thanks DS2...I think  

Brolish - wow, that's fantastic!  Did you go for the 'less is more' or 'more is more' approach?

Ady - it has gone a bit mental on here. It's that Sam Murphy hijacking your thread. I'd have words if I were you 

Ooh 4 smilies in one post - count 'em!

Edited: 19/12/2012 at 16:55
19/12/2012 at 16:57

Malcs- very much more is more... but that's just me!

seren nos    pirate
19/12/2012 at 17:47

I busy thread with lots of discusions  is a healthy thread.............be worried when the only posts are yours and sams

 

19/12/2012 at 21:18

Seren - I think this will be one of the more interesting threads. Ady has always got something funny or interesting to say

Brolish - I'm not sure what plan to follow at the moment. When I was young I ran hard on Tuesday and Thursday and usually 10 miles on a Wednesday but over two runs. I'm not sure my old body would cope now! Great time - just what Malcs needs to hear!

19/12/2012 at 23:13
really enjoyed reading through this thread and picking up tips and ideas, thank you
19/12/2012 at 23:14
Glad to see Ady has NY day off aswell!
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