The Road to Paris - On a Plateau - Asics Target 26.2 Training

LOL - nailed it Xyloid 

Shady_Ady wrote (see)

How was the 20 miler today Malcs? My 20 miler was downgraded to 2hrs 30mins of running, which meant only 18 today. I'm feeling much happier now about running Spitfire next weekend.

Did you manage to do your run today without hydrating again? I was tempted to try it, but I hadn't really focused on staying hydrated yesterday, so took a running bottle with me. I only drank 100ml of it though, so it was almost hydration free!

I think your wise running into London than along country lanes blessed with those Boy Racer's. I haven't actually made it to Windsor yet - only as far as Staines, but should make it all the way to Windsor on my last long run. If not then, then definitely in my training for Comrades.

That's very impressive - 18 miles in 2:30! You were quicker than me. I did indeed manage my 20 - up to London then slingshot round Cutty Sark. I had to get up at 5am to run so I was back for my son's rugby. Feeling it a bit now!

Did the first 15 at 9mm and the last at 8mm. Went very well but the last mile or two I was starting to tire. Not sure I would have fancied another 6 miles so I have work to do still. That said, I am very happy to be where I am after starting mid Jan. 

It was more of a minimal hydration strategy this time. I took a 125ml flask with me because I was trying some Perpetuem tablets. They have a bit of protein in them. One of the ultra guys said that he tried taking protein on his long runs and it made a big difference (his runs are longer than mine though). Anyway I needed about 50ml just to wash down the tabs as they are quite powdery. 

How did you find not taking on water then? I have to say, once the weather changes I'll be gulping the stuff down. Today it was nobbling so hardly needed anything - I expect it was the same where you are. 

Question for you (and anyone else): do you find your legs get sore on thes long runs? I don't so much get tired, my legs just get achey, like after exercise kind of achey. Is that normal? Usually starts from 15 miles on. 

Looking forward to Spitfire next week now!

Hi Ady, glad to hear you've had some good advice and things starting to settle. Don't push the speed with your quad let it dictate the pace if you feel it pulling you're running to hard for it still it may take a few more days to allow you to do speed work. Don't forget to ice after each run onto the quad to prevent any further damage. 

Glad the videos helped!!

See you saturday!

Week 10 Weight Loss Watch!

Starting Weight: 162.8lbs (Target Weight: 148lbs)

Weight After Week 1: 162.2lbs (-0.6lbs) (Xmas Parties!)

Weight After Week 2: 161.9lbs (-0.3lbs) (Xmas!)

Weight After Week 3: 160.7lbs (-1.2lbs) (New Year!)

Weight After Week 4: 159.2lbs (-1.5lbs)

Weight After Week 5: 158.0lbs (-1.2lbs)

Weight After Week 6: 156.2lbs (-1.8lbs)

Weight After Week 7: 155.8lbs (-0.4lbs)

Weight After Week 8: 155.0lbs (-0.8lbs)

Weight After Week 9: 154.4lbs (-0.6lbs)

Weight After Week 10: 153.2lbs (-1.2lbs)

Total Loss: 9.6lbs

Again I'm shocked to have lost so much weight this week, especially considering I went 3 days without running due to injury, have enjoyed a few beers and also the odd chocoltae here and there. Maybe it's just showing that as long as you eat the bad foods in moderation instead of all the time, then you can still lose weight.

I really can't remember the last time when I was weighing in under 11 stone. it must have been at least 6 or 7 years ago if not longer.

I'm now coming up to the two heaviest weeks of my marathon training program and this alone should help see a continued weight loss drop, plus extra training giving by the physio in increasing the strength of my upper legs and glutes. This should bring me back on track of losing 1lb a week on average and getting down to at least 148lbs before race day.  

Week 10 Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training Round-up (W/ Ending 24/02/13):

Day 64 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (18/02/13)

Target: REST/CT or 4 MILE JOG (CAN SWAP MON/WED, AS YOU FEEL)

Actual: Rest

Day 65 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (19/02/13)

Target: 2 MILES EASY then 3 x acceleration strides then 6 x 800M (or 3 mins) at 6.10-6.40 pace with 3 min jogs in between each. 1 MILE EASY (8 MILES) 

Actual: 2 miles comfortable then 4 x acceleration strides, then 6 x 1/2 mile reps @ 6:10-6:40m/m with 3 min jogs in between each. I mile comfortable c/down (7.12 miles)

Total: 7.12 miles in 1:05:15 @ 9:10m/m (The overall pace is slower due to walking between intervals instead of the usual jogging).

1/2 mile reps: 1st @ 6:22m/m. 2nd @ 6:19m/m. 3rd @ 6:27m/m. 4th @ 6:33m/m. 5th @ 6:36m/m. 6th @ 6:39m/m

Day 66 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (20/02/13)

Target: REST/CT or 4 MILE JOG

Actual: 30 minutes of upper body strength - sit ups, pull-ups, push-ups and core strength - planks and bridge moves..............NO RUNNING! (I'm currently experiencing the most dreaded word in the running dictionary - an injury).

Day 67 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (21/02/13)

Target: 6 MILE BUILD-UP focused around MP (From 8.10-7.20)

Actual: 30 minutes Go-Karting (okay, okay, I know it can't really be classed as marathon training, but it feels nicer putting this down than that dreaded word 'REST'!

Day 66 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (21/02/13)

Target: 4 MILES STEADY

Actual: 1 minute on the treadmill when testing out my new Asics GT-2000  and a spot of marching on the spot with the physio.........in other words REST again!

Day 69 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (23/02/13)

Target: Rest Day

Actual: 6.29 miles in 56:43 @ 9:01m/m

Day 70 - Asics Target 26.2 Paris Marathon Training (24/02/13)

Target: LONG RUN 20 MILES COMFORTABLE (7:50m/m-8:50m/m) – ideally at least half on soft, varied terrain. This was changed to 2hrs 30mins comfortable by Sam due to injury last week and my quad still being tight.

Actual: 18.11 miles in 2:37:17 @ 8:41m/m (actually this has been my longest run of my Paris Marathon training so far!).

Mile Splits: 1st @ 8:26m/m. 2nd @ 8:42m/m. 3rd @ 8:50m/m. 4th @ 8:32m/m. 5th @ 8:39m/m. 6th @ 8:45m/m. 7th @ 8:51m/m. 8th @ 8:57m/m. 9th @ 8:53m/m. 10th @ 8:53m/m. 11th @ 8:51m/m. 12th @ 8:41m/m. 13th @ 8:27m/m. 14th @ 8:41m/m. 15th @ 8:34m/m. 16th @ 8:43m/m. 17th @ 8:43m/m. 18th @ 8:12m/m. Last 0.11 @ 7:13m/m.

TOTAL MILEAGE:

TARGET: 42 MILES

ACTUAL:  31.52 MILES

Now that I’m back running, I’m hoping there should be no more missed training sessions between now and Paris. My thigh injury is clearing up nicely and as long as I respect this when I get tightness, then there shouldn’t be a problem. My knee is stiff again today after yesterday’s 18 miler, but it still feels better than what it has done in the past. I’m hoping with the new exercises the physio has given me, this will continue to improve. The best thing though is that it isn’t getting any worse!

Hi Ady

Glad the run went well yesterday but as Sarah says, we need to proceed with caution this week. I've taken out the speed reps, and juggled sessions around to delay harder sessions till later in the week. We'll discuss pacing for Surrey Spitfire at the training day. 

Week 11 w/c 25th February
Monday REST
Tuesday 5 miles COMFORTABLE
Wednesday 6 MILE BUILD-UP focused around MP (From 8.10-7.20)
Thursday 4-5 MILES JOG
Friday REST
Saturday TRAINING DAY BIRMINGHAM (4 MILES MP PLUS SOME SHORT SPEED WORK)
Sunday SURREY SPITFIRE 20 progressive pacing.
MILEAGE 42

Hi Malcs

Yep, sore aching legs are an occupational hazard in marathon training. Totally normal. I find that I ache a lot more after road-based runs than off-road ones, which is why I alternate between off-road LSRs and on-road progressive pacing runs. Variety is good and I find recovery from off road is always quicker. Not to mention better views...

Hi Sarah physio! Got your work cut out for you this training day.... the rigours of the peak mileage weeks showing for Ady and Steve. I'm sure they're 'looking forward' to seeing you 

Thanks Sam - just to confirm, I'm talking about sore legs during a run not after, in the latter miles of a long run. 

Should I expect the point in a run at which the soreness begins to increase as training progresses or is it something you just have to put up with? At the moment mile 15 is where I really start to feel it. With some more mileage could I expect to be able to get that to mile 20 or beyond?

For the next training day video can you overdub the screaming from the physio room with loud music or something? Nobody wants to hear grown men crying like small children  

Calorie Watch! Food & Drink Diary – Sunday 24th February 2013

I really need to start doing my long runs at roughly the same time I will in Paris.......but yet again, a Sunday lie in is just too tempting! That will change next week when I'll be up before 6am for my Spitfire 20 race!

9:30am - Breakfast - Raisin and Cinnamon Bagel with Lurpak spread and Jam. Small bowl of porridge with honey and chai seeds. Cup of tea.

10:45am - Pint of squash

12:00pm - 18.11 mile run (see earlier for full description). 3x  SIS Isotonic Gels (1 every 40 mins), 100ml of water with electrolyte tablet.

3:00pm - Lunch - 2 slices of toast with cheese, large glass of chocolate milk (just to tie me over until the early dinner an hour later and to make sure I ate within 30 minutes of finishing my run).

4:10pm - Dinner - Roast pork, stuffing, roast potatoes, red cabbage with apple, roasted carrots, parsnips and onions. (A much smaller portion for a Sunday roast than what I would normally have!). Pint of squash.

6:00pm - Cup of tea, pint of squash.

7:00pm - Homemade pancake with yoghurt and fresh strawberries, pint of squash.

9:30pm - 2 Lindt Lindor chocolates, pint of squash

11:00pm - Glass of water.

Xyloid wrote (see)

 With my trusted Coke in hand........Malcs I'll let you decide what animal I look like this time!

 

Xyloid........it'll be a sad, sad day when your posts fail to make me chuckle. Yet again another humurous addition. It scares me how quickly you came to the conclusion I looked like a penguin and how quickly you were able to find a pciture. It makes me think you've been thinking this for quite a while!

I'm a bit sceptical to be posting any more photos on here now! 

Ruth.......so you mean Pizza is off the menu?  Only joking! I'm more than happy to go somewhere that will suit RRR's requirements. I'm not a fussy eater, so basically anything edible that will be good for my carb-loading works fine for me.

No pizza with a little cheese can very much be on the menu. I just need find an Italian that also does non pasta/bread based food to!

sarah osborne wrote (see)

Ruth can I ask a quick question...just packing my bag for sheffield and my shot blocks from last year and noticed that the sell by/use by date (not sure which one it is) says may and the other one June 2012....how likely are they to cause problems if I took them in feb 2013....do you think they would be fine to use or is it not worth the risk?

Sarah - I would probably use but with my professional hat on you should not ! "Use by"  means you should actually use by this date whereas "best before" means  just that (for example herbs that are past the best before date  will not be as strong etc but not unsafe to eat.

Salmon and baked potato is fine but I would reduce to the salmon to half a portion or less  (and if eating out at restaurant I would avoid fish although shell fish would be a bigger problem as these are one of the most common risk foods for food poisoning/illness) and add a big bowl of cereal or toast & honey/jam before bed. When I talk about carb loading you want to keep the overall calories as low as possible so that means cut out too much protein/fat etc in the couple of days before and replace these calories with extra carbs.

Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Week 10 Weight Loss Watch!

Starting Weight: 162.8lbs (Target Weight: 148lbs)

Weight After Week 1: 162.2lbs (-0.6lbs) (Xmas Parties!)

Weight After Week 2: 161.9lbs (-0.3lbs) (Xmas!)

Weight After Week 3: 160.7lbs (-1.2lbs) (New Year!)

Weight After Week 4: 159.2lbs (-1.5lbs)

Weight After Week 5: 158.0lbs (-1.2lbs)

Weight After Week 6: 156.2lbs (-1.8lbs)

Weight After Week 7: 155.8lbs (-0.4lbs)

Weight After Week 8: 155.0lbs (-0.8lbs)

Weight After Week 9: 154.4lbs (-0.6lbs)

Weight After Week 10: 153.2lbs (-1.2lbs)

Total Loss: 9.6lbs

Again I'm shocked to have lost so much weight this week, especially considering I went 3 days without running due to injury, have enjoyed a few beers and also the odd chocoltae here and there. Maybe it's just showing that as long as you eat the bad foods in moderation instead of all the time, then you can still lose weight.

I really can't remember the last time when I was weighing in under 11 stone. it must have been at least 6 or 7 years ago if not longer.

I'm now coming up to the two heaviest weeks of my marathon training program and this alone should help see a continued weight loss drop, plus extra training giving by the physio in increasing the strength of my upper legs and glutes. This should bring me back on track of losing 1lb a week on average and getting down to at least 148lbs before race day.  

You deserve this - well done.  I do feel you have made a real effort to show these figures! so just keep the focus and have the odd treat but as you have mentioned in moderation.  See you Saturday and hopefully I will come with some menu's for a couple of restaurants in Paris.

Malcs wrote (see)

That's very impressive - 18 miles in 2:30! You were quicker than me. I did indeed manage my 20 - up to London then slingshot round Cutty Sark. I had to get up at 5am to run so I was back for my son's rugby. Feeling it a bit now!

Did the first 15 at 9mm and the last at 8mm. Went very well but the last mile or two I was starting to tire. Not sure I would have fancied another 6 miles so I have work to do still. That said, I am very happy to be where I am after starting mid Jan. 

It was more of a minimal hydration strategy this time. I took a 125ml flask with me because I was trying some Perpetuem tablets. They have a bit of protein in them. One of the ultra guys said that he tried taking protein on his long runs and it made a big difference (his runs are longer than mine though). Anyway I needed about 50ml just to wash down the tabs as they are quite powdery. 

How did you find not taking on water then? I have to say, once the weather changes I'll be gulping the stuff down. Today it was nobbling so hardly needed anything - I expect it was the same where you are. 

Question for you (and anyone else): do you find your legs get sore on thes long runs? I don't so much get tired, my legs just get achey, like after exercise kind of achey. Is that normal? Usually starts from 15 miles on. 

Looking forward to Spitfire next week now!

Malcs.......That was a very impressive effort indeed getting up at that time and still managing to do the 20 miles rather than rolling over and falling back to sleep. The streets must have been quiet at that time of the day. More than anything though it makes me see that I can still sneak my long runs in over the weekend and keep the family happy!

I actually felt much more tired on this 18 miler than my last one. I think I would have struggled if I'd tried and done a few MP miles to finish with, especially as my quad was feeling tight still. Seeing that you are several weeks behind me and you've already done a 20 miler is definitely a good sign. I've never heard of taking protein during a long run. I might look into this more for my Ultra later on in the year.

I had no issues at all taking on so little water yesterday, but like you said, I think that was down to the cold. I start taking on a lot more once the temperature rises. I hope it stays below 10 degrees C for Paris, but if it doesn't, I feel I've ran enough in hot weather now to not feel too daunted.

Yes, I know the feeling regarding the aching in the legs. Last year when I started getting into my long runs it started around 13-14 miles. I ran the Thames Meander Marathon last August with little training and started having these aches before halfway. It wasn't my best running experience. I think the more long runs you get under your belt, the longer it will take to have this feeling, or the more you can block out the pain. I'm going to follow Sarah's philosophy next time I start to get tired - run faster and see if this takes me mind away from the aches and pain!

Malcs wrote (see)

On the hydration one you mentioned that unless the conditions are very hot you shouldn't need Nuun or other electrolyte tabs. You also say that you know if you're a high sweater if you lick your hand and taste salt. On all my marathons I have felt like the sweat was pouring out of me and that was in warm not hot weather. I didn't need to lick my hand to know there was salt there - I could feel the damn stuff! I had patches of white on my face and body. 

I assume this means that I must lose alot of salt - more than the average joe? I've suffered nausea, cramps and spasms on almost all my marathons. The one where it was least bad I used about 2-3 Nuun tabs. Each one has 360mg of Sodium so for 3 tabs that's over 1g of salt. Does it make sense that I should have to take that amount? Should I take less or more? I know you said before that cramps are not likely to be down to hydration but given what I just said about salt loss, does it seem more likely?

Cramps can be caused by a lot of salt loss but as mentioned for most this is not usually the cause but yes in your case it is possible that this is an issue. 2-3 nuun tablets is not too excessive for a marathon if very hot and if this is the best it has been then this may be useful in hot climates for you. Does this still happen to the same extend or at all in colder conditions? At what stage do they usually start?  

Malc - nuun is a good choice

Lucozade Sport lite: 250mg sodium

Powerade Zero: 250mg sodium

NUUN: 360mg

High Five Zero: 260mg

High Five Salts: 260mg

High five X’treme: 260mg

SIS super hydro: 300mg

sarah asics pro team wrote (see)

Hi Ady, glad to hear you've had some good advice and things starting to settle. Don't push the speed with your quad let it dictate the pace if you feel it pulling you're running to hard for it still it may take a few more days to allow you to do speed work. Don't forget to ice after each run onto the quad to prevent any further damage. 

Glad the videos helped!!

See you saturday!

Hey Sarah......thanks....I'll certainly let the quad dictate the pace. It's been nice to have the rest day today, as I haven't felt any problems with it at all. I've been putting  heat patches on it overnight as well as the icing. 

I woke up today and my knee was feeling a little stiff and sore again. But unlike previous weeks it felt like a continous unwinding to the stiffness during morning. By lunch time, it had subsided and I was able to climb stairs without any issue. This is definitely an improvement to the last couple of weeks after my long run. Hopefully the rest of the week will continue to see an improvement!

The videos definitely helped - especially the foam roller - I'd been foam rolling pure bone I think until I saw it!

Looking forward to feeling more pain at your hands this Saturday! 

SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

Hi Ady

Glad the run went well yesterday but as Sarah says, we need to proceed with caution this week. I've taken out the speed reps, and juggled sessions around to delay harder sessions till later in the week. We'll discuss pacing for Surrey Spitfire at the training day. 

Week 11 w/c 25th February
Monday REST
Tuesday 5 miles COMFORTABLE
Wednesday 6 MILE BUILD-UP focused around MP (From 8.10-7.20)
Thursday 4-5 MILES JOG
Friday REST
Saturday TRAINING DAY BIRMINGHAM (4 MILES MP PLUS SOME SHORT SPEED WORK)
Sunday SURREY SPITFIRE 20 progressive pacing.
MILEAGE 42

Hey Sam......Thanks for juggling the sessions about. I think my quad is getting back to full fitness now, but like you said, there's no need to rush it back. I'm actually happy that the speed training has been moved from this week. I was a little worried with this and I could imagine myelf tensing up when doing it and causing more damage. 

I'm definitely looking forward to getting my first 20 miler under my belt and putting in my longest week of training so far! 

SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

Hi Sarah physio! Got your work cut out for you this training day.... the rigours of the peak mileage weeks showing for Ady and Steve. I'm sure they're 'looking forward' to seeing you 

Haha.........I can't wait to feel those fingers digging into my fleshy parts! At least this time I know what's coming and I'm not suffering from tendonitis from the snow!

RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)

Malc - nuun is a good choice

Lucozade Sport lite: 250mg sodium

Powerade Zero: 250mg sodium

NUUN: 360mg

High Five Zero: 260mg

High Five Salts: 260mg

High five X’treme: 260mg

SIS super hydro: 300mg

Thanks for the comments Ruth. I'm happy to see that pizza can still be on the menu, even if it's minus the cheese!

I'm happy to see the weight loss continuing and now 148lbs is almost within sight, I'm starting to think how much further I can go now. Can I even get down to being less than this?

I have used High Five Zero Electrolyte tablets quite a few times recently, mainly because I've had a few freebies left over from a recent marathon expo. I used my last one on my long run yesterday. I'm not entirely sure how much difference they make, but now I think it'll be best to continue using them, more as a superstition that anything else.

Shady_Ady wrote (see)

Xyloid........it'll be a sad, sad day when your posts fail to make me chuckle. Yet again another humurous addition. It scares me how quickly you came to the conclusion I looked like a penguin and how quickly you were able to find a pciture. It makes me think you've been thinking this for quite a while!

I'm a bit sceptical to be posting any more photos on here now! 

I had just been watching the penguin programme on TV and your arms out at the sides like that just reminded me of the rock hoppers!  It was an added bonus that you were wearing black and white kit!  If I had Malcs skill at photoshop I would have added a bottle in each hand of the penguin to complete the picture, but I don't, so I didn't!

Please don't start refraining from posting pictures of yourself.  All these posts about running malarky are all well and good but nothing beats an opportunity to take the mickey a little bit!