Where all the places go

If you're one of these pure runner types, who want to run for the sake of running and not for the mass participation side of FLM, then you can go and enter another marathon. There are plenty held all around the country. There are also faster courses elsewhere! FLM is for the masses. If you want to be sure of getting in, run for charity. I ran for Phab last year, having to raise at least £850. I raised £600, and paid £250 out of my pocket. A colleague raised over £3,000 for the same charity. The lottery is the only way to cope with the rest. 70,000+ into 32,000 just doesn't go. If I don't get in this year, (I'm doing the lottery this year as I'm suffering from collector-fatigue) I'll just go and sign up for another marathon elsewhere. (Bungay Black Dog, Shakespeare, Sheffield are all within a fortnight of the FLM). Oracle, you are clearly a speed demon, but us trundlers own the race now, and you can't have it back!

;-)
Big Bopper.
B.O.P. till I drop.

Keep it then.

GW - yep, you got it.

I wonder what none runners would make of this debate. To an outsider you would no doubt appear as a group of anal scrouges. I can’t believe that people are stressing over how a private company divides up the places for its race.

Ask yourself this why do you want to take part in London? For most of us it is to be part of the spectacle and enjoy the atmosphere. There are faster courses for PBs and more scenic courses. I run a lot recreationally with a handful of races a year. If I’m going to run a marathon I want it to be a big one.

Without the fun run element do you seriously think the event would get anywhere near as much spectator support or coverage. To non runners running is boring. It’s just not great to watch. When I tell people I’m running London they do assume that it’s for Charity but whilst part of that is because of the nature of FLM it’s also down to the fact that for most non runners they think running is nuts and can’t understand why anyone would do it. It’s the fact that it is “ordinary” people with their various stories that get people out on the streets of London. Most of the people watching the event haven’t even got a clue who the top runners are. They are there to cheer on the stupid fat guy dressed as a womble.

London can never be all things to all people. But face facts it has a top elite field (would half of them turn up if London wasn’t the way it is, after all winning the London marathon must carry a lot more prestige than winning other marathons not to mention money!), if you’re a fairly decent runner you can still get in via “Good For Age”. Otherwise it’s try your luck via the ballot or go for a charity entry.

As for this “lets boycott the charity places and reclaim our event” crap please get a life….

You can still have fun runners, elite fields, wombles, rhinos, mass spectator support etc, etc without the charities.

but you don't though do you?

rmc, it doesn't make someone an "anal scrounge" or "a person without a life", if one asks whether something which is organised one way could surely be more fairly and appropriately organised another way.

Your comment: "As for this “lets boycott the charity places and reclaim our event” crap please get a life…" is actually a comment which is completely lacking in meaning. If you have something to say, say it clearly rather than pretending that meaningless rhetoric proves some sort of point.

I thought I did say it clearly. I don't want to argue semantics with you but it clearly does have meaning. And for you to in effect dismiss an entire post on the basis of one or two lines in it doesn't exactly provide a rebuttal does it?

There are always going to be winners and losers in an event that is massively oversubscribed. Fact is there is a lottery (presumably fair but I see some people are sceptical about whether bequeathing decreases their chances), if you can run within certain times you get also get in. Outside of that you can run for Charity. Seems to me when everyone sends their entries in they are more or less in the same boat, sounds kind of fair to me.

rmc, I wasn't trying to provide a rebuttal. I was unhappy with your use of the terms "anal scrounge" and "get a life if you think the event should be reclaimed for runners", which I take it you are trying to apply to me, so I simply addressed those points.

We are free agents, or ought to be. I happen to live in London, and as there is only one London Marathon allowed through the centre of the city I live in and FLM have unfortunately taken a monopoly position over the control of it and are continually fiddling about with it to suit themselves, Londoners who are runners are entitled to deal with the bits of the way that monopoly is being manipulated against us as we see fit, if any of us don't like the position we are forced into. If runners who are unhappy with places being sold to charities were to avoid taking up those places, and if they did so in sufficient numbers, the charities would have a problem getting rid of the places and wouldn't buy them in the first place, FLM wouldn't be able to sell them off to the charities so its present allocation system would unravel, and FLM would have to give the places to the runners which is what it ought to be doing in the first place. That would then leave the runners free to decide whether or not they want to run for charity, rather than being forced to run for charity if they want a place. I'm not sure why you think my holding that view somehow means I should "get a life".

Oracle, are you saying that you should be given a spot in the FLM simply because you are a Londoner? And there are plenty of marathons that take place in and around London. Why not try entering one of those?
What I'm trying to work out is why you want to be able to run in the FLM when you make it clear you want to run it for the sake of running a good time, and not for the sake of running with/tripping over tens of thousands of others. Why FLM and not another race?

BB, we've had the debate already, at length, which bored the pants off some people while interesting others. Sorry if you missed it but there's not much point in going over bits of the whole thing again and again to involve latecomers. Mr A won't stand for it, and quite right too. You'll find a few threads with various issues in them, if you look, which you can read if you have the stamina (quite a lot would be needed). My comments back to rmc were just in respect of the two labels he targeted at me in his posting above (anal scrounge, and person without a life).

Oracle
Granted FLM is in London but that doesn’t make it a Londoners only event and I don’t see that Londoners should be any more favoured in entry than anyone else. Afterall London is the capital of our nation. Your tone re the organisation of FLM reads as if it is a conspiracy to prevent people running the race and in particular yourself. You also seem to be assuming that everyone running for charity is doing so solely as a means of getting into the race. Obviously I can’t talk for everyone but I’ve known several people enter under a bond place having never run before specifically because they want to run for charity. The charity element seems to add something to the race for them

What you have proposed in effect in your post is that you would like to see a situation where charities loose money on FLM ie they buy the places and then can’t sell them on. And you wonder about the “get a life” statement.

At the risk of sounding like I might be losing my grip on reality - well said, Oracle.

This is something that we're never going to agree on so can we just drop it please?

Those of us who are in will enjoy the day, those who aren't will hopefully find another race that they'll enjoy just as much.

Consider it dropped.

I used to hang round this forum a lot last year when I was training for FLM. Didn't post much but found the whole vibe of the forum a good one and it helped me a lot through the dark, wet, cold nights when sometimes (not often) the "why am i doing this" thought popped into my mind.

Hopefully now that everyone knows (or will know soon) whether they are in or out we can get on with that.

You had a place anyway. The system must, therefore, be fair, and anyone who sees it otherwise must therefore be deluding themselves.

You didn't have a place. The system must, therefore, be unfair, and anyone who sees it otherwise must therefore be deluding themselves.

Oracle I'm going to call it a day on this thread. I'm not even going to suggest that we agree to disagree.

And I'm not even going to suggest that you're a provocative hypocrite.

thankyou you're welcome