Negative splits .... are they the magic elixir everyone makes out??

21 to 40 of 46 messages
15/11/2012 at 15:34
marshallini wrote (see)

How not to pace a half marathon and still get a pb

1 - 5:31.71
2 - 5:51.46 - 11:23.17
3 - 5:56.82 - 17:19.99
4 - 5:58.11 - 23:18.10
5 - 6:01.18 - 29:19.28 (5 mile pb)
6 - 5:56.34 - 35:15.62
7 - 6:06.73 - 41:22.35
8 - 6:14.23 - 47:36.58
9 - 6:11.15  - 53:47.73
10- 6:12.65 - 1:00:00.38 (10 mile pb)
11- 6:21.44 - 1:06:21.82
12- 6:30.54 - 1:12:52.36
13- 6:22:46 - 1:19:14.82
13.2- 00:36.05 - 1:19:50.87

 

      Here's a half I did earlier.

Splits. 5:45,5:34,5:35,5:35,5:39,5:38,5:37,5:38,5:38,5:38,5:39,5:37,5:30

Even pace, negative splits.                                                                       

Edited: 15/11/2012 at 15:39
15/11/2012 at 16:13
RikF - You must be like some kind of machine with those splits! (or constantly checking your garmin!)

On another point, I think from my point of view (since Im asking about negative splits) is that if your going to be knackered after a race then its probaby better to be knackered only at the very end, rather than tire yourself halfway through then go through the 2nd half in pain ...... it seems like negative splits makes for a more pleasant race if nothing else (so long as you dont take the P like strolling with an ice cream in your hand for the first half of the race)
15/11/2012 at 16:16

No Garmins in 1997.

It was in Battersea Park on a one mile loop.

After a relatively sedate start, I spent most of the race running on the very edge of going into oxygen debt, hence the variation. The last mile was quicker virtue of an eyeballing sprint over the final 150m that definitely put me well in the red.

Edited: 15/11/2012 at 16:20
15/11/2012 at 16:29

Ill you in a couple of weeks. I just got the chance to run my first 10k and I believe I can knock out a 42 min but I'm going for 20 minutes at the turn around and see if I can keep the pace.  I'd love to beat the magic 40 for my first one. If I blow up - 10k isn't my race so any time will be a pb.

mcs
15/11/2012 at 16:37

Interesting thread quote from Ian. Depends on whats at stake and how fit you are but generally consistent splits are good and then leave nothing out there at the end is my motto but depends on how competitive you are I guess.  You cant run in the red for a marathon or even a 10k so got to be even paced.

15/11/2012 at 16:46

It's all relative init really. From that link -
"I knew I could run 50 miles, so I decided to go for as fast a time as possible for 50 miles and then ‘hang on’ as long as I could to see if I could cover the 100 mile course.”
First mile in 5 min 19seconds!
Doesn't bare thinking about!! 

 

15/11/2012 at 17:00
 
 

In practise, a lot of people end up running negative splits simply because life's too short to beast yourself silly to the point of exhaustion for every single race, and easing yourself in and finishing strong is a more pleasant experience, even if it doesn't yield the absolute fastest time possible.

That is absolutely why I do it! 

15/11/2012 at 23:40
Think it depends what type of runner you are, and also how much experience.

Loads start off fast due to the adrenaline rush and pay for it, making their PB aim much harder, and also more painful. They may still do it, but it's going to hurt especially at marathon distance.

Once you learn from this, the slightly slower start works. Might only be 5-10 second slower first mile, but enough.

My last 4-5 races have been even paced or slight negsplit of 30-90secs, increasing the last quarter or half, and that's at marathon, 10 mile, 10ks and 2 league races.
Very noticeable in the league races that I caught up pals both times, they going off fast, but catching them as they tired at 4-5 miles, whilst I was even paced.

For me, helps knowing my mile time to know approx limits to aim for, and using ave pace from other races.
16/11/2012 at 00:22
RicF wrote (see)
marshallini wrote (see)

How not to pace a half marathon and still get a pb

1 - 5:31.71
2 - 5:51.46 - 11:23.17
3 - 5:56.82 - 17:19.99
4 - 5:58.11 - 23:18.10
5 - 6:01.18 - 29:19.28 (5 mile pb)
6 - 5:56.34 - 35:15.62
7 - 6:06.73 - 41:22.35
8 - 6:14.23 - 47:36.58
9 - 6:11.15  - 53:47.73
10- 6:12.65 - 1:00:00.38 (10 mile pb)
11- 6:21.44 - 1:06:21.82
12- 6:30.54 - 1:12:52.36
13- 6:22:46 - 1:19:14.82
13.2- 00:36.05 - 1:19:50.87

 

      Here's a half I did earlier.

Splits. 5:45,5:34,5:35,5:35,5:39,5:38,5:37,5:38,5:38,5:38,5:39,5:37,5:30

Even pace, negative splits.                                                                       

Ouch!!!!!!


 A 5:31 first mile! Must have based you straight into oxygen debt. Mile 12 must have been agony. Respect for finishing that one.

16/11/2012 at 00:28

Negative splits don't work for me. I seem to perform best with a slightly fast start, an average third quarter and a murderous giving of everything to finish. The start really helps confidence and almost has you in credit with a few seconds at the half way stage.

With negative splits you can still be really tired at the middle stage of a race.......and the pressure to then increase pace can be soul destroying.

 

16/11/2012 at 00:35

I am a novice Marathon runner (2 to date) but went for the even pace advice on my first and went for the same approach on my second ........which worked really well for me as I hit my target time , didn't leave much out there as finished off any energy reserve with a fast last 2K , but recovered really well so no pain after the event leaving me thinking it was worth coming back for more.........

My first 5K was the same time as my last 5K with a pretty even split across the two half marathons .... 2 minutes slower on the second half 

I am a 9 minute miler over that distance so managed to do a sub 4 with this method so 03.57 on the first and a slight improvement to 03.54 on the second 

Some of my friends who are a similar ability are still struggling to do that sub 4 as they blow up over those last 5 miles

The best advice I got was to keep reigning back and hold your pace especially when you feel really good after 13,14,15 miles and I must admit on both my runs I struggled to hold myself back as felt fantastic at 13,14,15 but then felt crap at 18, 19, 20 .....but weirdly felt good again at 21 through 25...

So I think the danger period is that middle section as most of us are conscious of not going off too fast ......

As most have said though it depends on the objective ....... I only planned to run 1 Marathon and someone said to book in for a second... to enjoy the first and then you are bound to set a PB on the second .......having really enjoyed the first I was happy to enjoy the second and set any form of PB ......aiming for 1 minute under and going for that even pace strategy again ........once again it worked and I was able to get up a push in the last 2K to edge under by 3mins  .........

My training runs have hurt far more than these two runs and I guess that's sensible too ..... push your body in training ....know your limits ...and then control things on the day .........  

 

 

 

 

so the advice to work out your pace and then  at 22 miles or so and I $ 

 

16/11/2012 at 00:35

In my last Parkrun (York) I set out to aim for 20 mins.  After the usual kamikaze start, at 1k I counted back from the leaders (it is a very open course) and I was around 30th.  After that I spent my time overtaking (including 3 x MV60's who should know better!).  My Garmin was set to miles, splits were 6:24, 6:24, 6:23, with an eyeballs out effort for 19:56.  I finished 15th.  BTW I'm a MV55 old codger and I like to think that I have been at it long enough to pace evenly rather than hopefully..

With those splits I thought Marshallini must have been running an uphill course! 

16/11/2012 at 09:42
Wardi wrote (see)

With those splits I thought Marshallini must have been running an uphill course! 

tbh the first mile was down hill and the last mile back up the same hill, but things did get significantly harder after mile 10 and I was killing myself trying to go sub 80.

I ran a ten mile race a few weeks later;

1- 5:43.03
2- 5:50.65
3- 5:57.78
4- 6:01.97
5- 5:51.75
6- 5:54.16
7- 5:47.28
8 - 6:03.21
9- 6:05.79
10- 5:44.11 - 58:59.43

Not sure what happened in 8 and 9, maybe mile 7 was too fast,  but I think it was down to the group I was running with slowing, perhaps I should've pushed earlier as I smashed the last mile and left them all for dead.

16/11/2012 at 10:32
If the OP wants to run to have a " more pleasant experience" then I wish he would have put that in her first post. Paying close attention to splits to me is about getting the best time out of a race not the best way to have a jolly. I would say if you just want a "fun run" then don't worry about splits at all and just have a lovely time.
16/11/2012 at 10:34
" 5.31 must have based(?) you straight into oxygen debt" surely that would depend on who the runner is??
16/11/2012 at 10:35

Sussex Runner - Firstly ...... ouch! Im not saying I want a fun run! (in fact I do believe I specifically mentioned in this thread about not using negative splits as an excuse for a stroll with an ice cream for the first half of the race). I think you think when I say pleasant, you picture me in a hammock with a pina colada ....... whereas more accurately I mean, not busting a gut to the 7 mile mark and then struggling for the next 6, but instead feeling 'somewhat' comfortable at the 7 mile mark so you can push on from there .....

16/11/2012 at 10:55
Fair enough Jenny. I just read your ice cream bit. Maybe I just blurred your comment in with Wilkie's. I'm doing a 10k on Sunday and am not expecting to have a pleasant time until I cross the finish the line. It's a fast 10k course. If I can run as evenly as Rik F then I will be more than happy.
16/11/2012 at 11:06

Well good luck with that ...... I shall look forward to your 'sub 40 minute 10k race' post on sunday!

 

16/11/2012 at 12:08

I'm running a 10-Mile race on Sunday, attempting to put into practice my above "even-pace/increasing-effort" preaching by banging in 7:55 miles for a sub-80 time

I should mention that most of my PB's up to now have been positive-split jobbys of the "looking good til half way, then gradually grind to a halt" type

I did run one half-mara PB back in 2008 off even splits and it still stands out in my mind as one of the most satisfying runs I've ever had - a big PB that felt "easy" - hoping to re-enact that experience on Sunday... will report back...

16/11/2012 at 14:11
Sussex Runner (NLR) wrote (see)
" 5.31 must have based(?) you straight into oxygen debt" surely that would depend on who the runner is??

A 5:31 first mile split on an eventual 1:19.50 half marathon is nearly 35 seconds too fast when you consider that he averaged in the region of 6:06 per mile over the distance. In itself a 5:31 mile is not to be sniffed at.

Its still a superb half marathon time, but I'd wager that he could have been at least a minute faster with more even pacing. He wouldn't have been blowing as hard anywhere near as early......it looks like the real struggles began around mile 8. Another 5 miles of torture to go!

Again, respect to him.

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