5k times vs faster 10k times ?

20 messages
17/03/2013 at 23:17

i know timing is science , but my 5k times are generally around 29-30 mins , my PB is 28:32 

when i ran my 10k i got 54:34 

i did park run the other day and my 5k was 31, 

i'm not overly fussed as i'm working on longer distances towards the HM , but i find it odd that my 5k times are a bit mediocre lol 

and my 11 yr old  beat me by a clear 4 min and was waiting for me, so much for me waiting for her

should i accept my short-mid distance is just not very efficient and enjoy park runs for what they are , or is it indicative my training isn't very effective, hence my times are static ? 

opinions read with interest 

18/03/2013 at 08:02
Could be the course. My 5k pb is exactly half my 10k. This is because 10k was run on a nice gently undulating road course, whilst my 5k is from a fully off road, occasionaly muddy parkrun with a very steep section at 1mile in.
I did a HM yesterday all on road but with the last ~200m across grass to the finish. It was like running into a pool of treacle after 13M
Could also be that you take the 10k runs more seriously.
cougie    pirate
18/03/2013 at 08:22
Yes could be a hard 5k or easy/short 10k ?

Try doing some half mile intervals - that should be of benefit to both distances.
18/03/2013 at 08:40

were those 5ks all parkruns? What kind of footing and course profile is it?

For years I used to do a summer series of 5k races. Took me a while to realise either grassy laps or undulating road wasn't going to give me the best chance of a good time.

Shorter the distance the more you feel every single bump!

seren nos    pirate
18/03/2013 at 08:42

seems strange.i would be worried that the 10k was a short course................or the 5k were all long

 

18/03/2013 at 10:20
Yes they are all park runs, I run milton Keynes PR , it does have zig zag hills ,
the 10k was at the mk festival of running , apparently measured by athletics association , simelar course , Tarmac , gravel paths , etc and big hill at the end of the 10k
maybe I ran faster under pressure?
I might run 2 laps of PR to test my timing
18/03/2013 at 10:30

Are you warming up properly for the parkruns? Could you just be slow to start but go well once you're in your stride?

18/03/2013 at 13:14

Speaking from my own experience, its harder than it sounds to get a 5km pb considerably less than half of a 10km pb. I think if you did some runs incorporating a faster pace, e.g. 1km at training pace, 500m at race pace (around 5mins 20 per km?), and repeat that a couple of times, I think you would be able to start to shave seconds off that time. That race pace would get you over the line in 26:40 which, on a comparable track, should be very achievable given your 5k time.

Also, the suggestion to ensure you warm up properly may sound obvious, but its so important in short runs where you need to hit your pace immediately.

Edited: 18/03/2013 at 13:29
18/03/2013 at 17:40
Lou Diamonds wrote (see)
Could be the course. My 5k pb is exactly half my 10k. This is because 10k was run on a nice gently undulating road course, whilst my 5k is from a fully off road, occasionaly muddy parkrun with a very steep section at 1mile in.
I did a HM yesterday all on road but with the last ~200m across grass to the finish. It was like running into a pool of treacle after 13M
Could also be that you take the 10k runs more seriously.

Was that the Fleet half yesterday, Lou? Filthy conditions - the huge tent we all huddled in beforehand was itself pitched on what became a sea of mud. I think it was in danger of sinking into it. At least, like you say, the course was all road.

18/03/2013 at 18:17
No Warwick. Condition of the grass wasnt too bad when I finished, but still very noticeable effect on tired legs. However, 2000 + people in the rain later, I imagine it can't have been pretty.
18/03/2013 at 20:03

I came in around 1300th at Warwick, and I can testify that it was pretty bloody awful by the time I got there!

19/04/2013 at 14:35

revisiting threads .... 

i prob don't warm up as well , so the idea i don't get 'going' until nearer the 4k mark is a fair point 

incidently since this post my PR 5k is now 27:03 , i took my 11 year old with me twice now and she beat me with a 26:30 , ha , she loves beating mummy  and smugly waits at the end for me 

19/04/2013 at 14:54

Have you got splits/halfway split for your 10k?  I'd say there's a good chance your 2nd 5k is significantly quicker than your actual 5k /parkrun pb.  If I was to run a 5k at optimum pace, the warm-up would be longer than the race! I think some people think of the warm-up as a little loosener, and maybe jog about a bit and do a couple of quad stretches, but for a race that short you should be getting your heart and lungs ready to operate at race speed, so a good 15-20 minutes easy run, with some quicker strides at the end, is a minimum requirement IMO.

And get your 11yo down the club, sounds like she's got promise.

19/04/2013 at 15:27

I did a 10k last week in a PB of 46:25, with a second half split of 23:07.

My Parkrun (and 5k) PB is 25:55, although that is from November, before my marathon training began, so I was notably less fit, and it's a hillier course than the pancake flat 10k I did. You need to compare like for like, in a close ish time frame, to control for training effect. I hope to bring my 5k and 10k times down this year, no idea to what at the moment, as i've never trained specifically for these distances. Perhaps under 22 for 5k by end of the year? Maybe under 45 for 10k? No idea if these are too easy or too hard or what, until I start.

19/04/2013 at 15:53
PhilPub wrote (see)

I think some people think of the warm-up as a little loosener, and maybe jog about a bit and do a couple of quad stretches, but for a race that short you should be getting your heart and lungs ready to operate at race speed, so a good 15-20 minutes easy run, with some quicker strides at the end, is a minimum requirement IMO.

 

That much?!  How long a breather would you then generally leave yourself after the strides before the start of the race?

I think I need to get out of bed (even) earlier next time I tackle a parkrun!

19/04/2013 at 16:15

BBB - I suppose it might depend a little bit on fitness and amount of running you're used to, e.g. if you're only going up to 10k in training on 3x/wk, 15mins + parkrun might get you a bit too close to your endurance limit, but otherwise it should be manageable. For a typical race, I'd expect to have 5 minutes standing around between getting to the start and the gun, so I wouldn't plan a breather as such.  Maybe different for a parkrun if the start is less formal, but I'm quite used to still being sweaty on the start line!

Pethead    pirate
19/04/2013 at 16:56

Same here with the warm-up. You get PBs by running at close to your maximum pace throughout the race. Loads of people say they miss PBs by getting knackered and going slowly at the end, well it's equally possible to miss a PB by not going fast enough at the beginning because your body's not ready. Would definitely recommend at least a mile warm-up and a couple of  faster strides before a 5K.
Twice my 5K PB is 2 minutes quicker than my 10K PB and objectively "better" - I find 5Ks a lot easier, you just go fast and it might hurt but it's over quickly, and I struggle to go almost as fast for twice as long. Suppose people who aren't a fan of lactic acid and general pain would think the opposite!

19/04/2013 at 17:02

I naively hadn't really thought of a warm up as warming up that much, but that makes perfect sense. Next time I go to parkrun I'll do a quick mile or so a few minutes before the start to get going... PB here we come!

19/04/2013 at 17:06

Thanks, Phil.

Food for thought. I'm up to over 30 miles per week across 5 runs now, so there's some scope there for giving this a go next time I reckon.

 

19/04/2013 at 17:28

I find 10k a pretty difficult distance to race. The effort doesn't seem much less than for a 5k, but you have to maintain it for twice as long.


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