Advice on the Victory 5

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01/12/2008 at 09:57

Paul, you start a thread asking for advice, you virtually ignore all the advice given, from my self and others. You do your own haphazard schedule with very little structure.

The sort of work you're doing is maintaining your level, NOT raising it.

Guys dont run sub 30/5mile, by accident, your mileage is too low, and you seem to shy away from the really tough interval sessions. You should be doing sessions that are faster than race pace. You are obsessed with TT.

Its too late to improve for the Victory 5, but if you are serious about improving, you need to consistently be running 40/50miles/week, and doing 2 interval sessions a week to improve your VOmax.

Its your choice at the end of the day, so I will bow out.

01/12/2008 at 19:54
I definitely recognise the fact I need to be doing a consistently higher mileage than I am... so that's something i'll look to improving straight after the race.

I'm not obsessed with Time Trial, but I did see it used in some of Lydiard/Hadd's schedules and thought it would be a decent tool in the run-up to an event.

When you say the "really tough interval sessions", do you refer to things like mile reps?

I apologise to yourself and others if i've created a sense of ignoring advice given by anyone, that's certainly not the case.
02/12/2008 at 17:12

Done on the treadmill to avoid the school traffic (I live in a busy suburban area and my local running track doesnt have floodlights on certain days)

800m jog warmup

1 mile fast
4 mins walk
1 mile fast
4 mins walk
1 mile fast
4 mins walk
1 mile fast
4 mins walk
1 mile fast
4 mins walk

All mile reps done at 9.2mph (6'31" pace for a mile) and all 4-min walk intervals done at 3.6mph

Including the warmup, the session came to 6.75mi.

Was hard, but felt good throughout.
02/12/2008 at 18:15
Will do a recovery run for either 5 miles or 35 minutes tomorrow depending on work and sleep.

I intend to have friday and saturday as complete rest days before the race. Does anyone have any suggestions of what I should do on thursday as my last hard day?
02/12/2008 at 21:21
I wouldn't do a hard day on Thursday unless you're made of nails (even then it's probably unwise). Experimented with a heavy, long taper before the Brighton 10k a couple of weeks ago and it paid dividends. Maybe that's because I don't have a history of a couple of years of frequent running so it takes a bit longer for me to recover and super-compensate, but even if you're a bit more experienced I wouldn't risk it. You're not going to get any faster now before the race, but you could get a lot slower... 
02/12/2008 at 22:14
So do nothing on thursday? Or just something light...?
03/12/2008 at 00:08

The week before Brighton I did a hard 8 x 600m on Tuesday and then absolutely nothing more before the race on Sunday. That probably isn't 100 per cent ideal for most people, but worked for me. I think most people who know what they're talking about would say do a short, light run on Thurs (the short bit is particularly important), but experience tells me that I'm probably different and benefit from complete rest.

03/12/2008 at 00:28

No no, I can relate to what you're saying.

 This year at the GSR, there were extenuating circumstances (work, domestic problems, sleep etc.) that stopped me from running for 3 days before the race. So the last hard run I did before the GSR was on the tuesday, and the last run I did at all was the wednesday. I had thursday-friday-saturday as complete rest and pulled out a PB.

 So I think i'll do a 35 minute easy run tomorrow..... then take complete rest till the race.

03/12/2008 at 01:46

There are definitely a few parallels between the advice of forumites - Mmm...Marmite, Yifter, Ronny H, B-limey and Feel the pain and respected running coach from Serpentine Frank Horwill.

Having taken almost a year out of training, and only getting back into it in November '07, this year has been all about working hard to get back to where I was at the end of 2004 and first half of 2005. It's been challenging more mentally than physically, and there's been a lot of frustration and so on.

But what i've definitely expanded the most in the last year is my knowledge. And a lot of it down to the kind people on this forum.

This article in particular -, backs up a lot of Yifter's suggestions on appropriate training for 5M/10k.

 This really struck a chord too:-

Yifter S. wrote (see)

if you are serious about improving, you need to consistently be running 40/50miles/week, and doing 2 interval sessions a week to improve your VOmax.

With this, and the above article in mind, along with Marmite's original schedule suggestion, i'm planning to stop pissing around and procrastinating, and hit the training hard after the Victory 5. I don't really know what's happened since the GSR, but i've just kinda lost my focus a little. I think the dawning of realisation that i'm not about to set a 5M PB has left me feeling a bit depressed. But I'm keen to get my 10K time down to at least 41 minutes next year...

So, priorities:

  • Lose some weight (Horwill and Marmite suggest 135-140lbs being ideal weight for height)
  • Reach a CONSISTENT 40-50 miles a week, something I haven't done before (Yifter and Marmite)
  • 2 Interval or VO2Max sessions a week (Yifter/Ronny H/Frank Horwill)
  • Try not to race too often, as I seem to use that as an excuse to chuck volume out the window (Lydiard, Hadd, Pantman)
  • Use less rest days, and more recovery runs (Pantman and Horwill)
  • Do less non-running specific training (Marmite, Ronny H)
  • Make sure all my sessions have a purpose (Ronny H)

With a little italicized acknowledgement of where each idea came from.

And last but not least:

  • NO TIME TRIALS. (Yifter the S.)


04/12/2008 at 01:13
Did my 35 min jog today. Nothing till the big race now!
06/12/2008 at 19:51

Big day tomorrow Paul. Good luck.

M...eldy    pirate
06/12/2008 at 20:02
Good luck Paul ....   break a leg 
06/12/2008 at 23:14
Cheers guys!
07/12/2008 at 15:22

Not a pb, but i'm very pleased . Was a very good race.
07/12/2008 at 15:38
Great stuff! Looks faster than you were expecting - nice one.
07/12/2008 at 15:42
Well done Paul. Its actually not far from your pb is it?
07/12/2008 at 15:50
only 10-15 seconds slower.. so could've been worse!
07/12/2008 at 16:08
Prefountain wrote (see)

32s a little optimistic, I do think you will be slightly better at 5mile than 10mile tho, because of the mileage you have been putting in.

If I was you I'd set off at 33min pace and step it up after 3miles if you feel capable.

Just looked at your splits Paul, you set off a little too fast didn't you. You must have suffered a bit in the last 3/4miles.

That guy knew what he was talking about Paul, back in October!

To people that know little about running, they might think knocking 2'47" (sub30mins) off a 5mile time should be quite easy. Its not, as you have found out.

You havent trained properly the last couple of months, which you have admitted. Im not suggesting its a crime, and if you are happy then its not a problem.

I think you could get sub 30min/5mile within 2 months and sub 60min/10mile within 4/5 months, with the proper training. It all depends on what level you want to run at, and how much work you want to put in.

kittenkat    pirate
07/12/2008 at 16:12
07/12/2008 at 16:15
Those are definitely the kind of targets i'd want to achieve. I think your point about the 4 different training paces (race pace, and 5k, 3k, 1500m) is quite pertinent and certainly something I'm going to try and accommodate.

I think the issue for me now is juggling the mileage with those quality sessions. Should I go for 2 long runs and 4-5 quality sessions in 14 days as per Frank Horwill's 10k schedule? And if so, what other mileage would be appropriate to fit around that?

I set off too fast today mind... something of a recurring theme with me. I hit the 1-Mile mark at 5'52"
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