Base Training

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05/10/2009 at 20:03
I'm up for keeping the thread alive!!  I'm still plodding away - I live in a very hilly area and I had a though (just one!!)  How about getting a lift up a hill then running down...there are several inclines round me which are reasonably gentle and last for a good few miles, my thinking is, this would allow me to run without (hopefully) going above my "zone."  Not everyday just once a week or so, give me a chance for a longer run?  Or is this not a good idea?  Bad for the joints/legs?
06/10/2009 at 11:44

hi, i've started doing this for 3 months before i start marathon training in jan, i have a garmin with hrm, and have been running at 70% hr based from this which is around 130. i reckon this is about right as 220 - age would give me a max of 186, and at the end of a half marathon a couple of weeks ago ( i mile sprint to finish!!) the garmin measured 96% as 180.

does this sound about right or should i be more like 145 for easy/steady runs?  at the moment it is really slow, about 12 min miles!! but i generally run comfortably training at 9.30-10 min miles

and how many miles / hours a week do you think is best to see a good improvement? i am currently doing 30-35 but by november when i have more time, hope to increase this to 40-45

thanks for any advice!!

06/10/2009 at 11:55

deedee24 - you've calculated your 70% different to me.  I worked out my max HR, took off my resting HR (average of 5 readings taken first thing in the morning), took 70% of the difference and then added that back to the resting heart rate to get 70% of 'working heart rate' as my target.  If your RHR is 60bpm, max at 186, your 70% WHR would be 148.  Mine is 145.  I find I'm running at 10.5 mins per mile which is a lot slower than what I would naturally run at - but if I run at 9.30 min miles I can't go anywhere near as far as I can on this plan.  I am currently managing 3 or 4 runs a week and going about 4 miles each time.  However, this is only my third week, so no great improvement yet, but I'm willing to keep trying.

Btw - my calcs were taken from a heart rate training article that I found on this site - so you may find that useful to read.  I haven't sussed how to do links, but it's in the HR training index.

Look forward to hearing how you get on.

Impish

06/10/2009 at 12:12

i think you're right...it should be 70% of working heart rate not 70% of max. thats good, it did seem overly slow at 130!!

i think tonight i'll aim for 145.

06/10/2009 at 13:07
Good luck - I'm off out now
06/10/2009 at 13:47
I'm definitely a proponent of daily running... frequency being one of the most forgiving factors of progression...

Not 100% convinced on the HR side of things though.
06/10/2009 at 14:00

No me neither Squall , i remember reading about the Comrades Marathon in South Africe 1 year , When the winner switched off his Hr monitor after half way , he won by several mins whearas his competittors ran to the Pre set HR paremeters set on their Monitors ie a buzzer sounding when going .above the pre determined reading.

Thus u know when youre fit or not by exertion and pace per mile getting quicker for the same level of exertion. 

07/10/2009 at 08:51
I think training with an HRM is different to racing with an HRM (although this is recommended in some circles).  I certainly believe that I 'burned out' because I couldn't run a steady enough pace on my longer runs - so I never managed to run as far as I was supposed to.  With the help of the HRM, I am starting to be able to do that.  Whether this feeds through into being able to run those paces at lower HRs, I have yet to find out, but, as I'm enjoying my running rather than feeling that I'm always 'failing', I'm prepared to stick with it for a few months to find out.  After all, it took me best part of a year to realise that what I was doing, wasn't going to give me the results it 'should'.
01/11/2009 at 09:18

Hello nice to see this thread is still going I have started 70% traning two days ago plan to stick the 12 wks and hope to be a lot fitter for VLM training . My pace before was 9.15mm Im now 11.00mm yesterday I did 10m in 1.55 15mins slower than last week  but I never even felt out of breath I seemed to have lost a few pounds also which is great just hope I can stick to it .

01/11/2009 at 17:30
Hello Kazzy - good luck with your training.  I've been running like this for a few weeks now and have only noticed a slight improvement, but feel much fitter and am able to run further without feeling like I'm going to collapse.  I have entered a 15mile race in a fortnight, so hopefully I'll get round that and still be able to walk afterwards!  I am thinking that I will try to run more frequently - I'm only getting out 3 or 4 times a week at the moment.  I just have to wlrk out where to fit it in.......
11/11/2009 at 13:03

I'm not sure if this thread has died of old age but i'll post on here anyway.  I'm kinda new to this running lark and happened to stumble on this thread some time last month. Been lurking ever since, and i'm currently on post 8500 (i decided i was gonna read the whole thread no matter what.)  Anyway, I hope some of those new to this base building will help revive this thread.  I've found it really helpful (this thread that is, too early to tell if my running is gonna improve) and am gonna give it a twirl.  It was this thread that got me to register, and got me to write my first ever post.

 I got my hrm last week and went out and did a max hr test 196, although i think i might have seen it go up some more if i hadn't wussed out when i did.  I'm currently running at 147 but really struggling to keep the hr down, i think i might let it creep up to 155 for the next few runs and see if that helps. After which it might be easier to bring it down.  I currently run 3 days followed by 1 day off and have generally been running between an hour and 90 mins each time.

Kazzy, Impish, any progress reports? Or anyone else for that matter.

11/11/2009 at 13:21
Hello base trainer. I don't think the thread has died, it just goes to sleep every so often

I return to base every winter in one form or another and am back again. I know how hard it is to keep the HR down especially in the early days. One method you could try is maybe let it creep up to 155 as you mention if that feels comfortable and then when you notice a significant decrease in pace at that HR move the HR down gradually till you can manage 147 with ease.

You have to be careful IMHO that you don't run too slowly that your gait alters. Run slowly enough to make it still comfortable

I'm impressed you've decided to read the whole thread and have read quite a bit of it already
11/11/2009 at 17:01
Hi Guys second week of LHR training Im getting on great try to keep my heart at 144bpm need to walk up hills but starting to enjoy running slow. My friends at running club think Im mad slowing down but I have got my mileage up to 40M a week  so happy days so far so good..
11/11/2009 at 18:50

Hi Pammie, nice to hear from one of the original crew.  It's kinda weird to think this thread has been running for 6 years (pun intended.)  Like someone mentioned earlier, it's a bit like a soap opera and you can't turn it off.

 Just got back from my run, and despite setting my hrm to a 155 max, I somehow managed an av of 149, so I was fairly happy with that.  However, because i'm so out of shape it took me 85 mins to run 10 km, and i'm wondering if I should cut back to 60 mins, or mix and match depending on how i feel.  I started running just over a month ago and would run about 20mins a day 3 times a week, with the intention of improving my time each run (it worked for the 6 runs i did but i felt shattered and didn't feel I could keep on improving) then i found this thread and started running 1 hour a day at what felt like a really easy tempo, but could only managed 3 days on the trot cos my shins would be killing me by the 4th day.  I've stuck with the 3 on 1 off since then as it keeps me fresh, but I don't know if I am overdoing it with more than 60 min runs at this moment in time.  I have a million questions but don't want to make this post any longer than it already is, so I'll save some questions for the next post.

Up to 40M a week in 2 weeks, sounds good Kazzy.  luckily i run on my own so I don't get to hear any of the 'you're so slow' comments  I just pretend everyone is thinking 'oh, he must be base training.'  Not sure that's what the old ladies think when they glide past me with their zimmer frames Ignorance is bliss.....

11/11/2009 at 19:12

Hi all.

Why do you all use the HR method of training?  I've tried it and find I run too slowly - my mile splits are embarrassingly slow if I train using that method.  

Kazzy, why do you walk up hills - is it because if you run your HR increases?  I'd advise to run up the hills, what happens if you come across one in a race you do?  You won't have the energy to run up it and therefore your time will suffer.  Start running up the hills as it will strengthen your quads and glutes and your running as a whole will improve.

I agree with Pammie - if you run really slowly your gait may change which is not at all good for you...

12/11/2009 at 09:14

There is absolutely no harm nor shame in needing to revert to walking on hills whilst starting out on base training. Indeed that is preferrable to trying to run so slowly that form breaks down. Yes you get strength benefits from running up hills but that will come later and indeed a lot of that will come from volume of running in any case and that is a product of base training.

 If you have tried HR training and you are 'too slow' that could  mean that you have an incorrect max figure or target HR to work to but equally it could mean that you are just not as aerobically fit as you thought you were and you are excactly the sort of person that would benefit from this sort of running. If you are embarassed by running that slowly perhaps your motivations for running are a bit skewed...

12/11/2009 at 16:26

Hi CB, from what I understand, the benefits of running at 70 - 75 % of hr max is that as you get fitter and log more hours(running at a lower hr allows you to run more), your pace will increase for the same hr.  I doubt there are many people who find they can run very fast at a low hr when they start.  I think patience is required with this training method, but as I have just started running I have plenty of that.  For those who find it hard to run at under 75% (like me) another option is to run as close to that hr as possible and slowly bring your hr down as you progress. However, I think using this method may take a little longer to see the same results.  I recall pantman saying that his wife used to run at a higher hr and it took her over a year to get her hr down to the 75% for the same pace. 

 Different strokes for different folks.

12/11/2009 at 18:10

I read the first 60 pages then realised I should be running rather than reading so much about running   I do like the idea of base training, tho, and hoping it's OK for someone of my (lack of) abilities.

 One question tho...should you go for an average of 70% or should you go at a constant speed so you end up at 70% even if you spend most of the time at quite a bit less?

M

12/11/2009 at 21:23

Hi No84, welcome to the club 

I think the idea is to try and keep it between 70-75% at all times (at least in the beginning) but it doesn't matter if you run at a lower hr.  So if you ran most of the time with a hr of 65% max then I think that would be fine.  However, if you're like most people you might find it hard running at under 70%.  My average for todays run was 151 (it should be 147 for me) and I found it a lot harder to keep my hr down than i did yesterday.

 Happy running

13/11/2009 at 13:29

Well that's another hour in the bag but it sure is tough trying to keep the hr down.  I passed a running track and had a moment of madness, decided i should do an all out 400m but luckily/unluckily the track was covered in a small layer of snow and ice so i decided it probably wasn't the best idea.

 Now i'm enjoying my first beer in 2 months  and after tonight's party i'm thinking tmrw will be a run free zone Good weekend to all.

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