Hi Pammie - good to *see* you again too,and pleased to know that you're still a Hadd disciple.
I've found that for me to achieve PB's Hadd training and high mileage is the only way that works for me, am not up to that level of mileage again (yet), it's taken me 5 weeks after the swine flu to get my RHR back to normal. I have 10 days off over Xmas so hope to get the mileage up to 100mpw then as I have plenty of time to run and rest
Pammie - I'll dig out my training diary tonight and let you know the daily mileage for my peak weeks. I've never managed a 100mpw whilst working (I work full time), I'm hoping to achieve it in 2010, we'll see
Cheers Shades - really appreciate that.
I work strange shifts its really like a week on/week off so some weeks i have more time on my hands (or should that be feet) Am hoping for better times in 2010
Hi GG - cross posting last night so have only just read your post. You've done really well to achieve those marathon times so obviously have a great deal of natural ability.
Re fueling on longish runs. This is a very personal thing and everyone is different. For me I don't bother with anything at BT pace if I'm running anything up to 2.25 hours. If I'm out longer that that then I would take a small amount of water and a handful of sweets. For runs over 20 miles I would use some electrolytes in the water and a few more sweets or dates which I find really good (very high on the GI index but can cause runners trots in some peeps). I never use sports drinks or gels as they don't agree with me. You don't want to deplete yourself of fluids or carbs too much as this will delay your recovery from the run so not helpful. I would suggest that you take a gel and/or some sweets and have access to water and take what you feel you need in the run. If you eat a fairly decent breakfast before your longish runs then that will help, as the runs are done at BT pace there shouldn't be any problem with running fairly soon after eating.
Pammie - right the path to my marathon PB
July - had a couple of niggles which kept my mileage down and I DNS'd my 2 planned ultras in that month, weekly mileage in July was 30 to 50mpw
1st week only 22 miles including 2 days rest before marathon
2nd week (I was on holiday in the Isle of Man for the whole week)Day 1 - marathon 26.2 milesDay 2 - a.m. 10 mile recovery run, p.m. rest (was knackered!)Day 3 - a.m. 9 miles, p.m. 6.8milesDay 4 - a.m. 10.05 miles, p.m. 5 milesDay 5 - a.m. 8.09 miles, p.m.3.02 milesDay 6 - a.m. 10.02 miles p.m. 6.45 milesDay 7 a.m. 6.69 miles
Total 101.32 miles
I then took a rest day and reverted to Mon-Sun as my running week
3rd week (back at work)Day 1 - a.m. 6.58 miles, p.m. 2.89 milesDay 2 - a.m. 7 miles, p.m.6 milesDay 3 - a.m. 6.67 miles, p.m. restDay 4 - a.m. 7.56 miles, p.m. 6 milesDay 5 - a.m. 8 miles, p.m. restDay 6 - a.m. 8 miles, p.m. restDay 7 - 21.5 miles, p.m. rest
Total 80.2 miles
4th weekDay 1 - a.m. 6.11 miles, p.m. 2.28 milesDay 2 - a.m. 6.5 miles, p.m. restDay 3 - a.m. 7.52 miles, p.m. restDay 4 - rest dayDay 5 - Invitational marathon Longford 26.2 milesDay 6 - rest dayDay 7 - Longford marathon 26.2 miles
Total 74.81 miles
Day 1 - 3.19 recovery run, travelling home from Ireland thenDay 2 - 3.57 miles (knackered after journey home)Day 3 - a.m. 8 miles, p.m. 5.65 milesDay 4 - a.m. 6.31 milesDay 5 - felt tired took unplanned rest dayDay 6 - rest dayDay 7 - Wolverhampton marathon 26.2 miles (10 mins and 12 secs off PB)
Total 52.92 miles
Pammie - that's OK, though it's not really much help is it!!!
The only thing I will say is that running doubles does soon become a habit and I think the benefit training wise comes from running on tired legs. Incidentally half way through the 80 mile week is when my min/mile training times started to drop, I've found that with Hadd training improvements can suddenly start to happen, but I didn't think it would reflect in my marathons that soon. I had not planned to run a PB or even try for one, I just decided on the start line at Wolverhampton to run at 85%MHR for the first 5 miles then up to 88%MHR for as long as I could hold it and it just turned out that I managed to hold it for the whole distance.
That’s incredible Shades as you ran two marathons the week before you ran your PB! That goes against everything that I’ve read about tapering, rest etc. Would you recommend trying this sort of approach for anyone else?
I personally like doubles a lot. Bizarrely, I ran my highest weekly mileage ever about 6 days before my best every 10k.......
Badbark -no, I wouldn't recommend running 2 marathons the week before attempting a marathon PB unless you are a serial marathon junkie as I am. I have previously run marathons on consecutive days, quite a few doubles, 2 triples and I did the 10 in 10 at Windermere in 2008. Running so many marathons close together generally will slow your marathon times (obviously), however when I did the 10. in 10 there was one guy that ran a marathon PB on Day 7 which was an astounding achievement but he was then injured for 4 months. I ran badly at the 10 in 10 having missed my last 8 weeks training due to injury, I was pleased just to complete it.
The more traditional marathon training including the tapering has never worked for me, I've tried several times and have run like a donkey (with apologies to the donkey). My last 2 marathon PB's 2005 and 2009 have been after a long spell of Hadd training but still been unexpected on the day, I guess you never really know how a race is going to pan out until you're well into the race. I've been running marathons close together for a long time and my strength lies in my recovery, it's another element of fitness that improves with time.
GG - I find that with running doubles it's easier to increase the weekly mileage that way rather than increasing distance on your daily runs. Time and work committments started me on doubles and even when I'm on holiday at Xmas when I plan to run15 miles a day I will probably do that most days with 2 runs.
GG - You're doing well getting the mileage up especially in this weather. We had ice yesterday so I missed my long run, ice is the only type of weather that I won't run in.
Do you do a lot of stretching to keep those hamstring niggles at bay?
GG - good for you being so religious about your stretching routines. BT is certainly your safest way to train and avoid injury and allow you to get those miles in.
No running for me last night or this morning as we have a lot of black ice, it looks evil out there, am not looking forward to driving to work either
Took me ages to find this thread - RW's search tool wasn't any help - is anyone following this approach at present?
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