Base Training

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23/09/2003 at 18:16
I decided to start with half hour runs - it's a little chilly here. But it was a good run, so I'm looking forward to doing another one tomorrow.
23/09/2003 at 19:04
My max HR is 199, min is 44. I reckon on doing LT runs between 166-174 bpm. Are you saying this range can change with training?

I'd assumed my LT would always be in this range and the only thing that would change would be how fast I was going due to training.
23/09/2003 at 20:19
I have also puzzled about this BR - I know that training affects how fast you are going before you hit the LT range - but I also seem to find that threshold runs affect the amount of time you can run tolerably in the LT zone - Does this make sense theoretically or is it complete garbage?

23/09/2003 at 20:31
What I mean is - once upon a time (ie about 2 yrs ago), when my heart rate reached 160, I would really be feeling a bit rough. Gasping a bit. Counting down the yards to the finish.

Now? When my hr reaches 160, I know that I can "cruise" at this level of moderately high effort for a good 20 minutes. What has happened? Maybe I'm just a bit less nesh than I used to be and it's all psychological, or is it physiological?

23/09/2003 at 21:47
LynneW is right - LT will increase as fitness progresses. Up to in excess of 90% of MHR in some elite, I believe... (but don't quote me on that!)
23/09/2003 at 22:14
Surely the LT should be a long way off in the beginning because, if I read it correctly, lactate production inhibits 'slow twitch' muscle fibre/ capilliary and mitochondria production?

I have a very simple plan, I have HR set between 132-142 (roughly 180-38(age)) also MaxHR(184) -50) then try to run 1-1.5hrs/day on 4-5days/ week and 2-2.5hrs on Sunday. Currently that is about 10min/mile cf target Half Mara pace of 8m/m so means somewhere between 40 and 60 miles. I'll keep this up for at least 3 months with minimal racing - Couple of XC and a Half each in Nov and Dec. Do I need to complicate it more than that at this stage??

24/09/2003 at 08:55
This is precisely why I am trying this approach. I have been training pretty hard for about 2 years now, and have seen some pretty good gains in my fitness.
In my last 5k race my average HR was 191 which I reckon must be nearing 90%, and I can do a 10k at 185bpm.
Unfortunately this doesn't make me particularly fit (5k pb is 25mins), it just means that I have a high LT.

So I am happy to spend a few months trying this 'base training' lark. If all goes well I will be able to get my LT back up pretty quickly, and get some good improvements in speed.
The worst case scenario (as far as I can see) is that my fitness will stay at the same level, but I get 3 months of easy training :-)
24/09/2003 at 09:15
As far as I could make out from the reading I've done on this, you should train at or below your aerobic max until you can run about 10 miles consistently at constant pace and constant heart rate (and feel at the end like you could do the whole lot again). Then you can up the HR by 5 bpm, and start the whole process again ...
24/09/2003 at 09:33
BTW, how do you know what your LT is?
24/09/2003 at 11:42
to test your LT you need to go to a sports lab - involves lots of unpleasant fingertip blood samples

LT, in terms of hr, moves with training

base training pushes it up, but not that efficiently

LT training (such as 3 minute hard intervals/3 minute recovery) pushes it up much more efficiently

-but aerobic and LT training do interfere with each other, hence periodisation (work on one, then the other)

but bear in mind that periodisation is used extensively by ironman triathletes/tour cyclists etc who aim for one or two peaks

if you want to compete all year it might not be for you
24/09/2003 at 11:57
Phew, I've finally read through the whole of the thread. It's very interesting especially reading the Hadd article.

Once I've run Windsor 1/2M on Sunday I'm going to give this a go. I've probably got a good aerobic base but some of that is unspecific as it is derived from C2 Rowing and cycling.

What I've lacked in the past is the discipline to run slowly, as my legs are quite strong I get carried away and sooner or later get injured.

It might be a good time to try and get the hang of this Pose stuff too.
24/09/2003 at 12:06
might have missed it, but i think (?) serpies are having a pose clinic some time around now
24/09/2003 at 12:13

It's been and gone, I think it was received quite well. I'm a member of the Serpies but was away at the time.
24/09/2003 at 16:42
Now i went on the treadmill today at the gym and i want to know if what i did was right or wrong

I used a heartrate program on the treddie put in my age weight etc. it told me my target rate was 129bpm. so i ran for 35 minutes at around 6.7 km per hour.
It had a hill incline so when i exceeded 129 bpm it would go down and vice-versa it felt so slow even though i sweated very slightly

I didn't run much more or worked harder just the bike and the treddie today as i have a race coming up sunday week and have started to cut back on my distances

I am so slow anyway but have decided to give the base training ago after my race

I do want to get faster and run a decent time
25/09/2003 at 16:15
Hi all

I am seriously thinking of giving this a try. I only have the brighton 10K lined up and if necesary will do it at base rate.

I have done the Allen calculation and my max heart rate would be 138. This seems extremely low as I ran the flora light 5K at 190+ and peaked at 200. I was a little tired but had no real ill effects.

My normal long run slow pace is usually at 155 160 bmp

Any advice /comments would be welcome.
25/09/2003 at 22:25
The HR seems somewhat low - if you are hitting 200bpm in a marathon the it seems as if your HR is higher than average. It would be intersting to see how you applied the formula to get that figure. Do remember that is a guide and not gospel. I would recommended 145 bpm initially and perhaps as much as 150 depending on the application of the formula.

The problem with such a program on these machines is twofold:
1) The formula is over simplified and very unreliable - use the 180 formula (link earlier on this thread) and see if the machine will let you set that HR manually - if not fake your details to get that figure!
2) This program takes no account of cardiac drift. If I am running for 1hr and want to stay below 145bpm and want to run at a constant pace, then I will probably hit 1/2hr at 135bpm. You are far better, IMHO, running at a set pace (following a gradual build up to warm up) which will bring your HR to the desired level at the ned of the run despite running at a constant pace. Educated guesses and trial & error is the only way to get it right...
26/09/2003 at 06:28
Thanks pantman, i think on the machine you can actualy change your target heartrate so will do that next time
26/09/2003 at 07:02
PM -I had a conversation with Hosie last night in the pub (plus with several others). Her calculation of target heartrate is based on the 180-age and then subtract five as not exercising that many times per week.

As Lindi pointed out - surely things like RHR have to come into the calculation somewhere? People can be so different it seems odd to have something based just on age and frequency of exercising.

ANy comments, better versions of the formula?
26/09/2003 at 10:10
Pant man

You have come up with exactly the heart rate I was going to use :-)

I do have quite a high rate but I really want to build my core strength up.

Base training starts today :-)
26/09/2003 at 11:31
WWWFR - I hav efound the 180 formula to be better in practice than the standard one involving RHR.

Josie, I would ideally start aiming for 145 so that you don't go too slow and then as fitness improves allow some to go up to 150 and keep others below 140.

And I have a sin to confess - went over my designated 145 for a few minutes last night... Why? Well, I was running up a long hill and saw a bike ahead and I could swear it was getting closer - opportunities such as this rarely raise their head so I upped it a bit... Anyway as we crested the top of the hill I cruised (really, I was feeling so smooth and strong) past the poor cyclist who'd being struggling up the climb on his outside (i.e. on the road) - just to make it abundantly clear to all what had occurred. The look on his face was worth a million...
Also, I now know that 155bpm is still below LT...
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