21 to 35 of 35 messages
04/07/2003 at 10:10

You are getting confused with base training and sharpening (periodising). This is similar to what you have stated, ie, building an aerobic base by doing all running aerobically over *relatively* high mileage for most of your training time, then replacing it with more and more speedwork, but less milage over an 8week period before a race to sharpen. The theory is that after 8weeks of sharpening, you will peak and remain at peak for 3-6weeks depending on whether you are a short or long swing athlete. Although not many "us mere mortal athletes" take the long periods between racing required for proper implementation of base training and sharpening.

So what you are saying has nothing to do with burning fat. Mark Allen was not doing things that way to burn fat! He was practicing basing and sharpening. Yes, he will learn to burn fat more efficiently at an aerobic pace. But my point is that when you get to the sharpening phase, you can only remain there for a matter of weeks, after that, you must revert back to aerobic training.

The original question was not about speed, it was about burning fat. I think for fat burning and general fitness, a good all round mixture with most of the training being done aerobically, but with a couple of hard sessions a week, with some weight training is probably the best thing to do for weight loss for most people
04/07/2003 at 11:48
Well there you go - that was intelligent and well thought-out too, RR. This is an interesting thread...

(juliejoo settles back with an unintelligent look on her face, trying not to think)
04/07/2003 at 14:24

You say he wasn't doing to burn fat, but HE says he was. By training himself to use fat as his primary fuel source he made himself a better runner. So no I'm not confused.

The person wanting to lose weight should utilise their fat stores in the same sort of way, rather than "Mens' Health" eclectic approach. Not only will it make a better runner LONG term, but that person can decrease calorific intake without the normal associated tiredness and hunger. They key is the timing of the food.

The low level of intensity means you can train daily safely and thus increase total calories burned, and you will have far more energy even on a reduced calorie diet.

It IS the best way to lose weight, fullstop. Almost 2.5 stone in less than 7 weeks with no hunger or tiredness, no loss in muscle mass (slight increase, in fact) and a drop of over 1min/m in speed has proven practically what I already knew theoretically. There is just no way at all that I could have acheived even half of that the "RR" way. Sorry!

Best wishes to you all from the Pantman (away till Sun ev. now...)
04/07/2003 at 15:12
ok, ok, I get what ur saying, but what I meant and perhaps was a little obscure was that he wasn't doing it to lose body weight, he was doing it so that he could burn fat more efficiently and build an aerobic base to make him faster. My point was that he was doing it for speed, not weight loss. I don't argue the fact that you lost 2.5stone in 7weeks, and well done for doing so!

Anyway I'm a stubborn git and if I read something, then something else contradicts it, I tend to believe the first source that I read - probably quite natural! Its certainly an interesting topic and its one that I'm going to read more into before I try and argue black's white - I guess the evidence that I was taking my argument from was from RW and other runners probably as experienced as urself who say that the harder session will increase metabolism for a long time after the workout therefore burning more fat in a workout. But I can see where ur coming from and I'll look into it before getting back with some solid evidence either in one direction or the other....
04/07/2003 at 15:18
I disagree - don't want to go round in circles but purely on the facts of losing weight if you eat more than you use you put on weight (ignoring Atkins type protein overdose stuff). I certainly haven't read any science that would back up what you say but would be interested if you could point me in its direction.
04/07/2003 at 17:30
And interesting that you mention the Atkins thing, popsider. Would you get a similar training effect to that which Pantman describes by training at whatever intensity but at the same time sticking to a very low carb diet?

Not something I particularly want to try but perhaps an idea worth exploring.
04/07/2003 at 18:48
As you may recall, I started this thread.
I'll freely confess that the numbers that I used were pure fiction, just to get the maths concept across.

However, the following is a quote from an actual running book:-

"You may have heard that low-intensity exercise burns more fat than high intensity exercise and therefore think that for weight-loss purposes you are better off running more slowly, in order to get your fat stores down. This is a misconception. The body always uses all types of fuel for all exercise - it's just that the amounts vary, according to the intensity of the exercise. If you exercise for half an hour at a low intensity (say, jogging at 9.5 minute mile pace), you may burn roughly 400 calories in an hour, with approximately 60 per cent [240] of the total calories coming from fat. If you exercised for half an hour at high-intensity (say 8 minute mile pace) you'll burn closer to 700 calories in an hour, but only 40 per cent [280] of the total calories would come from fat. As you can see, you are still burning more calories overall with the higher-intensity workout. And what's more, as you get fitter
your body will teach itself to utilise more fat in order to conserve its limited carbohydrate stores."

I've come to the conclusion that there's one reason why I don't lose weight - chocolate!

04/07/2003 at 20:47
chocolate's the answer

and i suppose crisps don't help
04/07/2003 at 21:50
I'm at my trimmest, slimmest and lightest the day after a race.

So run very very hard if you want to burn fat.

BR, sitting here after a particularly satisfying Royal Mixed Kebab and Chicken Korahi and 2 poppadoms, enjoying a bottle of Beaujolais.

If you want any tips on putting it on again, I'm your man!
04/07/2003 at 22:01
I've just polished off a huge chicken curry with pop tarts, twixes and a box of After Eights!
04/07/2003 at 22:02
Carbo and fat loading for something RR?
04/07/2003 at 22:05
nope, I'm just a greedy git!
04/07/2003 at 22:19
Im losing weight

by training moe
some fast, some slow

And crisps are EVIL#

(i love em)
04/07/2003 at 22:25
Interesting thread. Agree +++. You can't do long high intensity runs without using gycogen and so you'll not perform well doing these sessions after a very long eg Sunday, run when you will have depleted glycogen stores.
As concerns burning fat to lose weight; you will preferentially use all your glycogen stores and then fat. If you are not used to using fat as an energy source, you'll feel terrible, hence the "wall" at marathon races. But a calorie of fat is the same as a calorie of CHO, except for the slightly different amount of water "attached".
04/07/2003 at 22:28
God you medics complicate things Mr Treadmill. Run fast, eat curries, drink Stella, set pbs. Life is so simple!

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