Last week I started started training for the above and was just wondering if anyone could give me any feedback as to whether this is adequate volume to achieve a 40 minute 10k.
As a bit of background, I ran cross-country for Wales up to the age of 18, but never did any specific training for it as I was primarily a swimmer (hence I am slightly clueless about the training volume). I am now 26, and haven't particularly done much training over the last 8 years other than playing 5-a-side football and the occasional cardio session in the gym.
My planned training schedule (and I have stuck to it for a week and a half at least!) is as follows :
Monday - 5-a-side (2 games totalling 1hr 20 minutes)
Tuesday - Hard Run (5.6 Kilometres, Week 1 27:39, Week 2 26:35) Approx 7:37/Mile
Wednesday - Recovery Run (7 Kilometres, Week 1 37:50) - Very Easy Pace With a Friend Who Has Just Started Running Approx Approx 8:39 Mile
Thursday - 5-a-side (1 game 40 minutes)
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Interval (Week 1, 2.5k Warm Up, 8 X 400 Metres (Averaging 1:25, 2 Minutes Rest), 2.5k Warm Down)
Sunday - Long Run (9 Kilometres, Week 1 46:32) Approx 8:28/Mile
I appreciate that the long run should be longer than 9k, but as this was Week 1 I thought I would start gently and increase it.
Also, I will try and reduce the rest and increase the interval distance as the weeks go along.
Regarding the Wednesday run, I am unsure really what I should be doing in terms of distance and pace, any suggesions welcome.
The only guide I have in terms of race time is that I ran a 5k in 20:37 around 3 years ago with reasonable minimal training.
So to summarise, Is this the kind of schedule that will achieve my goal? And, if not, do I need to add distance, more race pace running, fartlek etc?
im no expert although i come from a similar background and had been away from structured running for 20yrs until last october (although i played hockey iin those 20yrs)
Firstly i would ignore the football as counting towards your goal. Sure it will help, but you are only likely to over value its benefit and will get found out during a race.
I do think you need to up your mileage if i added correctly you are at 20m pw, which is a good starting point but will need to be gently increased, perhaps upto 30m.
your quality run on saturday is definately on target to hit 40mins. But you will need to gently up your long run. But i would say the basic building blocks are there and you will need to get a little faster with the training but that will come over the weeks. 40m should be possible, good luck
Thanks for the advice guys.
I think the point about the increase in mileage is valid and I'm trying to build it gradually as I had never really ran for longer than 50 minutes before. I got up to 10k last Sunday in around 51 minutes which felt quite comfortable. I think I will try and get this up to around 12-13k and try and do something like 9-10k on a wednesday with a few quicker kms thrown in.
Intervals have been pretty good so far i think, having done 3 x 1k in week one (3:43, 3:47, 3:57) and 4 x 1k in week two (3:50, 3:49, 3:55, 3:50) all with 2 minutes rest.
In terms of a tempo run, do you think that it's more beneficial to run pretty much flat out for 6k like I have been doing or just running as far as I can at 4min/km pace (which would probably be only around 4k at the moment)?
Iwan, I agree about increasing the overall volume and I'd be careful doing too much quality on top of 5-a-side as well. Get your long run and a mid-week run up in volume gradually as you're planning. I'd try to get closer to 15k for a long run, 10-12k in the week, ~8:30/mile is pretty sensible. Bearing in mind your background you're still relatively new (this time round!) to running, so the easy miles will build up your running muscle/tendon strength as well as improving aerobic/endurance fitness.
W.r.t. tempo runs, I think it's best to run according to effort level rather than target pace. A classic tempo run is designed to increase your lactate threshold; for a 40 mins 10k you'll be working at a little higher than LT so pushing up LT will help you sustain a hard pace for longer. A hard continuous 6k will be good. What you could do is alternate a continuous tempo run with some "tempo intervals" at target pace, e.g. 3 x 2k @ 4:00/k. If you can build this up to 3 x 2 miles @ target pace, (from experience) I'd say you're there.
... sorry, meant to add - check out the McMillan Running Calculator which gives all sorts of information about race time predictors but also paces for suggested work-outs based on different race times. If you plug in 40 mins 10k, it may reassure you that you're not far off with your training, e.g. it suggests tempo run pace of 4:03 - 4:14/k, and km intervals @ 3:46 - 3:55. (My suggested interpretation of this is that if you're already a 40 mins 10k runner, 3:46 is about the fastest you need to be running km intervals, rather than you needing to hit this pace before you can break 40 mins, if you see what I mean!)
One proviso - amongst other people I think his suggestion for easy run pace is a little aggressive (7:40 - 8:10/m) I think 8:00 - 8:30/m is about right.
I did a 12 x 400 session last night where my target rep time was 85 seconds and 75s rest (first 400's session I have done).
The reps came out slightly erratically to say the least at: 79,76,76,81,89,89,85,83,85,85,83,80 !!
Just a couple of questions regarding this session for anyone with more experince than me (which would probably be most of you):
Firstly, bearing in mind that I think I am now in borderline 40:00 10k shape after 3 months of traning, is this session around the right intensity?
Secondly, since I started out ridiculously fast, was there any point carrying on after rep 4? I assume that even 85's would have been more beneficial than the above, despite the 82.5's average.
Thanks for any feedback in advance.
It's a good session if you're mixing it up with longer interval/tempo interval sessions as well, which will get you working more specifically to your target pace. You've got the right idea with the rests, i.e. relatively short so you're getting more fatigued throughout the session, which improves the speed endurance you need for 10k but also forces you to work on more even pacing during the reps.
And there was every point in carrying on! Your spread of 76 - 89 is way too big, so the more practise you get at even pacing, the better. I can pace a 400 rep within a second or two these days but I still tend to check on pace at the 200m point. Especially on the earlier reps, your breathing is nowhere near "up to speed" and it's all too easy to hit a pace which you will never be able to maintain, so the sooner you rein it in the better.
Thanks Phil, the advice is much appreciated.
Don't really know what was going on with those first 3 reps, and I was really feeling that reps 2 and 3 were lower effort than 1, then I just hit the wall on 5!
Yes I think I've got a reasonable mix, with a 4-6mile ish tempo run/mile intervals, 10-12 mile long run and a few other easier runs thrown in. Starting to get back into it now, and have even ditched the Monday 5-a-side games!
Iwan Jones 4 wrote (see)
and have even ditched the Monday 5-a-side games!
and have even ditched the Monday 5-a-side games!
That's the spirit!
I was just wondering what the opinion would be on doing a 5k parkrun this saturday, before my main priority 10k which is next Sunday?
Alternatively I would just do a relatively easy 8 x 400m or 4 x 800m session.
I doubt too much of a taper is required for a 10k, considering my mileage is only around 35 miles a week?
Any input appreciated as always.
The old rule says that for every mile raced don't do anything serious for the next same number of days.
So I suppose there is nothing wrong with a 5K park run a week before, but it'll probably be your last quality session before the 10K.
To be honest though, I'd have a go at running it at your predicted 10K pace (6:24 per mile) and see how comfortable you find it. If the pace seems a breeze for 5K, perhaps you could be well inside 40 mins for next Sunday's 10K.
35 miles a week sounds about right for sub 40. I often only take the day before off from running and ensure that there are no real quality sessions three days before. Best of luck......
Yeah I was thinking probably just keep it easy for the last week then and maybe do about 25ish miles.
I doubt I will be able to run and keep to a tempo, I'll have to race it once I'm there! I did 19:35 at the beginning of August but I've got some good training in since so I'm hoping I'll be around 19:20ish, which should get me close to 40 next Sunday....
Then I can start heading towards 40-50 miles a week hopefully for a November half
Interesting thread, title caught my eye as I have 10k PB of 40:51, albeit that I'm significantly older ... If I can get under 40:00 I'll be incredibly happy.
Just skimmed the thread so far, but will come back and read the detail. Good luck Iwan. I'm tempted to put out a friendly challenge and say "let's see who can get the time first", but I'm pretty it'll be you, my existing PB is about 6 years old already
Cicero, sounds like we're around the same level then, good to have some competition!
If I dont do it next Sunday, it should give you plenty of time to have a crack at it as I'm not sure when my next 10k will be. You got any races planned?
I'm just enjoying being back running to be honest. I ran XC and track to a decent level when younger so I thought this would be a breeze when I started back in April. I certainly have a new found respect for how much training is needed when your getting on a bit!
Getting on a bit?! At 26!! ha ha
I'm only 33 but, I'd be pretty chuffed to have my late 20s again to train with
I think there is a good chance you'll get inside 40 mins if you pace yourself well. Too fast a start could ruin your chances.
Best of luck
Well, managed 39:49 for the Cardiff 10k yesterday.
Pretty pleased with that of 5 months of training and I've now got the running bug back so hopefully plenty more to come.
Cheers for the training tips guys.
Congrats on achieving your goal! Well done.
Iwan, well done on achieving your goals already!!
I've got 10k races scheduled for 30 Sept and 10 Nov. The first will be a "sighter" - hoping to run under 42, hopefully close to 41. The second is the big PB attempt. So sub current PB 40:51 and hopefully sub 40.
In the meantime I'm running parkruns pretty regularly and hoping to get close to and below 20 mins soon.
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