Focused Training - RW [Forum]

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01/03/2005 at 12:11
But they do lots of "easy" running and you don't :o)

What's your slowest speed?
01/03/2005 at 12:43
Micksta, you should have caught me up and told me all about my `crazy running' at the National:)

Or I suppose I could have eased back and had a chat with you:))

Actually my usual mileage is 85-90, not that much different to yours.
01/03/2005 at 12:48
My understanding is that you can do very high mileages in racing flats, provided you run right.
01/03/2005 at 13:36
If racing flats are meant to be lightweight because the cushioning is taken out, then why not plimsolls from Woolworths, you know the black ones with the elastic, we used to have in school? (if you're my age!) :o)
01/03/2005 at 22:35
Why not indeed?

Why would it hurt, Micksta? Surely it hurts more to use the seriously inferior cushioning in a shoe than the awesome muscle elasticity in our legs?
01/03/2005 at 22:38
And, Micksta, you'll need to read up on the physiology of hitting the wall at some point... ;-)
02/03/2005 at 06:35
Back to the topic of weight training, if you wanna race fast then run!!!

Pantman, your right of course!

Now for my next trick, going to Club la Santa & not running 100M in the 7 days!
Can it be done!!!
JFB
02/03/2005 at 09:49
On the weight training, and cross training generally, isn't it a question of how much time and energy you have and how your training pattern works?
When I was trying to get back to fitness after a long lay-off I found that 'boxercise' type circuit training was great (obviously that's geared towards top end fitness and strength); if I had spare time training-wise I'd love to incorporate that, but it's as much as I can do to get in 6 running sessions/30-40 miles a week. I wouldn't abandon any of those sessions for cross-training. Also, I can't see quite how I'd fit it in, given the 6 sessions as 2xintervals/tempo run, each followed by recovery a day, one steady and one long run (by my standards!).
02/03/2005 at 11:17
JENNYD:

:) yeah I used to wear them black plimsols myself, and do you remember the white ones you could get also?

My slowest "easy pace" speed is around 7:30miling at the moment. Depends if im running alone or pacing a slower runner!

BR:

I did try and catch you up, it was those dam 15mm spikes that stopped me!!! ;)

PANTMAN:

Still not convinced over wearing lightweights every session PANTS, maybe it works for you, but I know for a fact I would prefer my `cushioning` on longer runs, besides I just got meself a pair of NIKE FREE TRAINERS I use them for all my strengthing work now whilst running!

I guess the opinion over if you should do gym work and run is divided, thats good to see though makes for an intresting read on the thread! I have noticed personally though that my strength on hills and sprint finishes has improved along with my weights program!
JFB
02/03/2005 at 11:53
Micksta, I also feel that weights can give you strength for hills and for holding yourself together when the going is tough. I do upper body weights on some recovery days, geared towards abdominal muscles more than biceps or whatever.

On the shoes, it also depends what you're running on, surely? If you're off-road, cushioning is less of an issue anyway.
02/03/2005 at 12:11
JFB:

The abs I think are so underated for runners, its really important to have stong ab and core stability as this is what keeps you on the straight and level whilst running.

I do some bicep work, mostly though my weights are geared toward shoulders, lats, and pecks to open the chest cavity.

You have a point over the shoes though, if off road then its not an issue, however if doing lots of miles on the paths or roads, then runners must be heading for stress fractures or shin splints if running `lightweights` all the time!
JFB
02/03/2005 at 12:29
I guess the shoes issue will depend to an extent on the individual runner, as well; when I run a lot on the roads I tend to get shin splints or whatever. But BR and Pantman can obviously handle it okay.

As a matter of fact, I like to race in lighter shoes than I train in; the difference is no doubt purely psychological, but the contrast to the regular shoes somehow makes me feel ready to go faster!
03/03/2005 at 12:50
I am 6'1" (not a good height to be a runner!), and last year dropped down to 11st3lbs, which worried me a little, I certainly didn't want to drop below that. It was also remarked that I looked a little unhealthy (thin face etc).

After the break I had from running, I'm back up to 11st11lbs (waist appears to be roughly same circumfrance, so maybe I put muscle on through cross-training).

My question is this, what sort of upper and lower weights should I be looking to stay between, to a) Stay healthy; and b) Do good times in?

I know there's a lot of variables in that, but a rough idea would be handy.

I'm also interested to know what someone's PB is (shall we say HM only to keep things simple) versus their height and weight.
JFB
03/03/2005 at 13:35
I wouldn't have thought that weights would make a huge amount of positive difference for a half marathon, to be honest.
Probably circuit training is more use than weights, but in terms of weights, I do things like the lateral pulldown, bench press, seated rowing to strengthen back and chest muscles. Lowish weights, high reps (eg sometimes on lat pulldown I will do 2 x 30-40 reps at 28kg plus 1 x 20 reps at 35kg, rather than straining away at a high weight for 3x10 reps).
If you are worried about weighing too little, then you'd presumably want to work on the big muscle groups, eg back and chest muscles and also the leg press.

My HM PB is weak, the distance is outside my range, really, but for the record it is 77.31; I am 5 ft 8 and weigh 10 stone.
03/03/2005 at 16:51
Wasn't really talking about weight-*lifting*, think you may have misunderstood.

Say I want to do sub-80 for a half. What's the most I could weight and be able to do it? 12 stone? Similarly, what weight should I not be dropping below?

Cheers.

PS: Do do quite a bit of weights anyway ...
03/03/2005 at 17:21
BRYAN:

Lat pulldowns, Bench press, seated row and peck machines are pretty good for runners, as JFB says for running you need to do high reps and low weight, this improves muscle endurance and tone, but prevents you from baulking out too much!

I usually work 2x20 with my weight reps, off a 1-min recovery between reps.

03/03/2005 at 17:58
Bryan

I was running 1:15 HMs when I weighed 13.5 stone and I am the same height as you. Body fat was virtually nil.

Still the same height and weight (about) but 20 years on I am returning to training try to get under 1:30 for a HM - close so far but not yet there - then 1.25 - then 1.20 - - - -
JFB
03/03/2005 at 18:51
Oops, sorry Bryan.
03/03/2005 at 19:21
No worries JFB.

Thanks torque, very handy to know ...
03/03/2005 at 22:35
Bryan, tend to get much the same kind of comments as you (...you could do with putting on a few pounds to get thin...), but I think performances tell what is right for any individual. Not sure there's an 'ideal' weight.

I'm just over 6ft.

Personally, I was around 13 - 13.5 st when I started running regularly and was running HMs in around 1.29 - 1.36 at that time.

For a HM these days, I'd be looking to be somewhere around 10st 12lbs. My PB (GNR 2004) is 1.17.51. Hoping to push 1.15 close this year.

With the running I do, never really seem to go above about 11st 3lbs, and do notice a bit of a drop-off in my performance when I'm nearing the upper end of my 'usual' weight range (10st 10lbs - 11st 2lbs).

I also find that post-race it can take me a few days to get back up to my pre-race weight (especially after a marathon, when I've dropped as low as 10st 5lbs!). Obviously, most of this is down to de-hydration.

As far as pushing weights goes, I don't!!! But realise I probably should...reverse arm curls would be useful to retain running form, keeping arms high when getting tired in longer races. I just do lots of core exercises (various sit-ups, bridges, lots of pilates-style exercises etc).

Hope this helps.
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