Focused Training - RW [Forum] - Page 68 - Training

Urban Road Runner

17/03/2005 at 16:09

Second Tom's view, put in simple grass root athletics wisdom - Training is training and racing is racing :)

Maybe you get too carried away with your track sessions. Leave the stop watch at home and don't track the times for the next few weeks. As the season is still long, I would rather put in a proper tempo run and skip the two track sessions. Once you feel strong in the tempo run (45 mins), a half marathon should feel easy and should give you enough confidence for the race situation. There is nothing wrong with track sessions, but if done rather a proper set and not half the set with increased rest (only my view).

Barnsley Runner

17/03/2005 at 16:10

What Tom and PM say.

I was in your position 18 months ago. Training harder and harder for more erratic results. I would beat guys I'd never beaten one race then suck for 5 more races. So I trained harder and sucked more.

Then I cut out the speedwork put my mileage base down then gradually reintroduced the faster stuff.

My take is that the reason you feel so bad in races is that you are overtrained and setting off too quickly for what your training will allow. You mention a first mile of 5:27 at Hastings. That's 71 min HM pace! So you've burned out by 10 miles and feel sick and woozy.

Hope you get things back on track soon.

Tom.

17/03/2005 at 16:51

Micksta, I think you'd agree that there is a general unanimity of view here from PM, URR, BR and myself here. What we are all agreed on is that you must get the balance right between the steady aerobic running, the faster stuff and the recovery running. Its this balance that is important and is specific to the individual, being determined by his physical make up and his racing ambitions.I think that BR and PM would prefer that you do very little speedwork, whereas URR and myself recognise that it is part of your training that you enjoy, and would be benefical to racing over your shorter distances. I think incuding a reasonable amount of speedwork in your training mix is ok - but with the following provisions.

Your must take real rest/recovery days. Simply doing an aerobic type run doesn't fit the bill, its got to be a recovery run to enable you to tackle the next hard session.

Yourmorning runs need to be run easier. They should unfold according to how you feel, you shouldn't be pushing these or seeking specific aerobic gains from them.

You shouldn't be doing lactic buffereing sessions, there are of little relevance for distances of 10k and above.You may recall, I queried the point of your 10x300m session. Great if you want to run 1500m but just too exhausting to fit into a balanced 10k+ schedule

Broadsword Calling Danny Boy

17/03/2005 at 16:54

Everything in moderation.

(Says he, planning on getting leathered on Guinness tonight.)

ceal

17/03/2005 at 16:55

ceal just nipping in here to tell Tom that she has just sent him an e-mail, he may be interested in, on chip timing/gun finish/rankings.

Pantman

17/03/2005 at 19:41

Tom. - I am fine with Micksta doing speedwork, but he is chronically overtrained and needs a total break first. That was my point.
Agree with the lactate buffering reps - his coach is apparently a former International MD runner - this to my mind is part of the problem...

Tom.

17/03/2005 at 21:22

Pantman don't you think that the use of the word "chronically " is a little unconsidered. If it is, and you are overstating your "diagnosis, you may well also be in danger of overstating the remedy.

Tom.

17/03/2005 at 21:27

Further to my previous post, it would appear that our responses to Micksta's problems are based on own responses to similar problems as they effected us. The appropriate solution is of course down to him, based on his own response to his current situation.

We do rather sound like a pair of consultants arguing over the operating table!

Get well soon, Micksta!

Urban Road Runner

17/03/2005 at 22:03

Tom - Almost, only need to throw in a few more "buzzwords" :)

Barnsley Runner

17/03/2005 at 23:25

Tom, as you know we all try and understand as much of the theory as we can but our fundamental beliefs are based on our own experiences as runners, therefore we are trying to give Micksta the `what I would do' scenario. I agree we are all different, and I certainly wouldn't advocate a programme which has no speedwork for 6 months at this point.

What I would try and avoid is the speedwork becoming hanging on grimly for dear life at the end to `seal the deal'.

It is a big step to make. When we are relatively new to running every time we increase training volume OR intensity we get good rewards, so it is easy (and comforting) to think `the more I put in the more I get out'. Eventually we hit a plateau, where greater efforts are not rewarded by better performances and we need to step back and evaluate the next step forward.

I was fortunate when I reached that stage to have Pantman and the Hadd thread on hand to guide me through to the way I train now. Otherwise it would have been too big a mental jump to make to think that easier running can produce better results.

Micksta, you have awesome ability as your FLM time showed. Taking some time to think about where exactly your running is going and how you are going to get there will see you reach new heights in the next couple of years.

Micksta

18/03/2005 at 11:34

Thank you guys for all the motivation and advice been given, its good to read and gives me food for thought.

When I said canning the season, I did not mean in the way as ``giving up on my running and doing something else`` more like ditching championship races etc, until Ive solved my problems etc. all my future races will be expermenting with different pre-race procedures and build ups etc, Folkestone 10 next week will be the start, if it goes reasonably well then I shall carry on, if it goes bad, then I will take a week off training, that kind of thing, nothing like the disapearing act, you guys have still gotta put up with me afraid! But PANTMAN I guess 2006 will be the year I beat you in the KGP! ;P

I parted company last night with one of my coaches, it was on friendly terms and we both agreed for the best, as he can not spend the time, so I now have a single coach and will join his training group on a full time basis.

Its a start, and with my blood tests etc coming up. lets hope its the start of a re-builing of my running form.

Broadsword Calling Danny Boy

18/03/2005 at 12:09

Like Lee Majors in the six million dollar man. "We can re-build him! We have the technology!"

:-)

Pantman

18/03/2005 at 13:19

Glad to hear you are on the mend, Micksta, and making changes - hope you consider all that has been said over the coming weeks.

BTW, do you know if Lawman is at Folkestone?

JFB

18/03/2005 at 13:56

Micksta, I think taking the pressure off yourself by saying at this stage that you won't do the bigger races sounds very sensible, and will prbably help you to take a rational, longer-term view about training.

Very best of luck with your rehab!

Hilly

18/03/2005 at 16:42

Out of interest and being nosey:o) Are you a coach Pantman?

Pantman

18/03/2005 at 18:35

Amongst other things, yes, hilly.

Micksta

18/03/2005 at 18:47

PANTMAN:

No not sure on the LAWMAN! He popped into Harriers last weds and was mumbling about a bad back so who knows! expect him to be at Paddock Wood though!

Its MR Brenchley I have parted with Im now coached by Peter Mullervy, he used to train GEC Avionacs and M&Ms. and wants to form a super Bud Budaro (excuse spelling) group down at IEK!

Pantman

18/03/2005 at 19:02

Yep - everyone will be at Paddock Wood, I'm sure. Folkestone will be interesting - being so close to Paddock Wood this year and so far from FLM the field will be different from last year for sure - but better or worse? No idea! The faster course may attract peeps too...

Hilly

18/03/2005 at 21:42

I won't ask what the other things are:o) Do you coach at a club?

Micksta

19/03/2005 at 12:02

PANTMAN:

Yeah difficult to gauge the level of intrest for Folkestone for sure! I would expect a few good M&M guys there, probably John Creane who runs for Folkestone ac.

IEK will have a strong presence, we have potentially a winning MALES TEAM if everyone turns up and runs to there best ability! ahem no names mentioned! ;p

Your right Paddock Wood will be a major major race down here, more so as Thanet 20 was cancelled, if any of us gets a top 10 placement at PW then its going some for sure!