Friday 16th March 2007 - Page 4 - Training

Barnsley Runner

16/03/2007 at 20:01

Nice 40 mins massage not like nrg-b's. She does much of Barnsley Football Club and says that runners are the top ones for denying injury.

I'll either fly round East Hull or knacker my calf up further.

Wardi - looks like the traditional weather for East Hull 20 is on its way:-)

Minks - do you have a date for when you hope to do a tentative jog yet?

SiT - what would a book by darts' `Rhinestone Cowboy' tell us about stretching?:-)

Wardi

16/03/2007 at 20:10

Indeed BR, I thought last year's friendly conditions at Hull might be a one off! Good luck with the calf problem.

Welcome back Minks, hope you can jog a bit in the not too distant future.

DD.. fine training in a sandstorm!

5 miles easy, mini taper for the Hull 20.

Nim.

16/03/2007 at 20:13

Evening..

woo hoo!!!

What: 7.7 miles (even with healing blisters)
Why: schedule
Last rest: Yesterday (enforced)
last hard: Sunday LSR

Hilly

16/03/2007 at 20:16

Evening all

What: 10 miles on treadmill
Why: kinder to my leg

My physio appt yesterday diagnosed an injury to the soleus muscle. The pain on the bone is due to the muscle pulling away. Apparently I overpronate on my right leg and my left leg is neutral. The right leg is my longer leg which is more developed than my left leg - most probably because I use it to overcompensate for the discrepancy. The physio suggested I get a very thin heel raise in my left trainer and do a number of stretches and massage techniques to combat the problem.

I have a question now. Does anyone here wear orthotics in one shoe and if so has it cured your leg problems? Can you wear orthotics in a lightweight flat shoe?

Speedie

16/03/2007 at 20:49

Hilly.

You probably remember I had to put out of FLM last year due to injury, this was due to knee pain, but due to the fact that I do over pronate and my lefy leg is 3/4 inch shorter than my right and with a combination of mileage over the years this was the main reason for the pain in knee.

I had orthotics fitted last April, and it has been a slow progress but I am back running fairly well now and no problems.

My left orthotic is built up much more on the heel to raise me up, the orthotics seem to fit better in some brands better than others, but have no problems in putting them in my racing shoes.

I can't really answer personally about an orthotic in one shoe, but if you are having one specifically made then the one orthotic should work, I have dealt with quite afew people using just one orthotic.

Speedie

16/03/2007 at 20:50

No wonder I have problems I have a Lefy leg - Sorry about the typos!

Hilly

16/03/2007 at 21:00

Speedie

Was your knee problem on your shorter or longer leg? My first SF was on my longer overpronating leg but recently the injuries have been to my left shorter leg.

Speedie

16/03/2007 at 21:19

Hilly - It was on both, but it started on my shorter leg, I continued running, but was told that due to over compensating I then started to get a pain in my right knee - that's when I decided to pull out of FLM.

With the mileage I was doing towards FLM last year something finally decided to give, and probably likewise with yourself, alot of mileage over the last few years may have just caught up.

I hope it is something that you are able to correct soon.

Welsh Poppy

16/03/2007 at 21:30

Hilly,

You will find most people will pronate on one leg.
No you dont wear just one orthotic ...you will find one orthotic will be built up more to allow for leg that is shorter than other.
Normal orthotics are worn in netrel shoes but also fit no problem in racing shoes.

It takes a while to get used to them.

If you just need a heel raise in one foot you can get sorbathan heels lifts in most good running stores.

I had to wear a heel raise due to my achilles in the begining but was never happy doing so.

popsider

16/03/2007 at 21:33

Hilly - I'd be careful about following the advice of the physio. You may have a slight leg length discrepancy (most of us do) and you may overpronate with one foot - but if it's such a problem why hasn't it shown up before given your mileage ?

With someone with your running history I'd be inclined to get the injury cured first and see if it recurs rather than looking for underlying causes. If it keeps coming back then yes maybe think about looking for the root of the problem but as you say you've had previous injuries to the other leg. I just think injuries are part of the game for high mileage runners and it doesn't necessarily mean there an underlying problem that need fixing - when you push your body something as innocent as banging your calf before a run might cause a tiny bit of damage that gets aggravated by the running.

That's just my general philosophy on these things - probably worth seeing what TmR thinks.

The Road Runner

16/03/2007 at 21:41

WP - most people's *feet* pronate fullstop (unless they supinate)! (and it's *over*pronation that needs correction) Sorry, feeling in a pedantic mood tonight!

From what I've seen, many runners will show signs of overpronation on one knee, but that foot will come off neutrally when they are running, then the opposite knee shows no signs of overpronation, but that foot will 'turn out' when they are running. But as WP says, you will see many orthotics which are more built up for one foot than the other.

Velociraptor

16/03/2007 at 21:48

Good evening everyone :o)

After a few weeks of lacklustre mileage due to life getting in the way, and a fantastic skiing holiday with a bit of gentle altitude-training slipped in, I'm heading for my first 60+ mile week since early February.

Today ...

What: 8.7 miles at just under 9mm pace on average, but with wildly varying splits due to the wind and the undulations.
Why: Taking it fairly easy after two hard sessions and a 15+ mile day earlier this week, and with a 20-mile race on Sunday to rest for.
Last hard: Wednesday. My first-ever run wearing a HRM, and I couldn't resist trying to see how big a number I could notch up on the last hill after eL Bee! had led from the front for 10 miles.
Last rest: Yesterday. Way too busy to run.

Minks, great to "see" you and glad you're settling well into the joys of parenthood!

RFJ

16/03/2007 at 21:54

Greetings all,

I was advised ages ago to wear heal raiser in both shoes due achielies and calf issues, still have a few issues every now and then, but can still run on them happily.

What - 3.25m
Why easy before 20m race round the lakes tomorrow.
Last rest - Yesterday (mini taper)
Last Hard - Weds

Take care all

Blisters

16/03/2007 at 22:02

21.5 at 7:30 pace all nice and bouncy. Very happy. Could have gone on for the planned 24, but I started later than planned.

Got to go

Computer share

Welsh Poppy

16/03/2007 at 22:09

FRR

I dont need a lesson Thank you very much!!
I am tired and just tried to help and it is a subject i know a great deal about but next time I won't bother!!

Hilly

16/03/2007 at 22:11

popsider - great post. Thanks and very true. I have known for a number of years that I am not a neutral runner and that leg discrepancies are something many people suffer with. I have always shyed away from orthotics as I've read such horror stories about adjustments and more problems from getting used to wearing them. This leg injury is however one similar to one I suffered when MikeG first coached me to sub 3.15. I'm just looking for a way to prevent the same injury in the future.

WP, NFRR and RFJ, thanks for your inputs also.

BR posts popsider - your point about the minor accidental knock leading to muliple problems for someone training hard is one I've never thought of but is simple, yet very perseptive, it's filed up here with other little gems of running wisdom:-)

The Road Runner

16/03/2007 at 22:12

Bollocks, sorry WP, I didn't mean that to come across like that! I was sort of joking, I know you own an U&R! :-S

Mike S

16/03/2007 at 23:03

evening

making a guest appearance - don't feel like I belong, as I haven't run since picking up that injury Monday, and at the current rate of improvement, hopes of making Sunday's race have all but gone.

The very basic MT bike has been wheeled out the last 2 nights in a desperate attempt to cling onto some semblence of an aerobic base - a 50 mins twilight thrash last night, 69 mins tonight.

Nice to see your post Minks.

Some interesting posts on this page from a personal viewpoint, in respect of lower leg injuries. The physio I saw Tuesday was recommending a heel raise for the injured leg, of at least 3/8s of an inch. Sounded alarmingly big to me - but how could I go about getting something like that if I did decide to take his advice?

Fell Liker

16/03/2007 at 23:14

hilly - my recent venture into running again has come about from me using the Boots Orthaheels orthotics in both shoes and using an old cut up insole to lift the left orthotic up to take account of the leg length problem. I used to use a Sorbothane heel wedge thing, but it was too high for me, and made my hips uncomfortable.
Finger crossing everytime I run seems to be working for now but then again, I'm mainly getting bike miles in these days. Good luck, I'll see you two sometime soon, I hope!

What: 9k on the gymbike this evening followed by 5mins fast walk and hour of pilates/ abs fitness session
Why: taking my bike total to 51M for the week so far. Legs are tired.
Last hard: last night's 2x21min session on the gym bike; 13k (higher resstance) and 15k (lower)
Last rest: 6 days - no wonder I'm a bit knackered!

I'm off to bed, night all!

nrg-b

17/03/2007 at 00:03

BR: 40mins? I got tenderized for 1.5 hrs!

Popsider: A brilliant post.

Hilly: As you know I'm not a medic, just an amateur . When I was injured during my "Year of Hell" I spent a fortune on various oesteos & chiros to find a way out. They all told me I had leg length & pronation problems. Problem was that each one said it was a different leg, with differences up to 1cm! However, they all agreed that orthotics and heel raises would sort me out. When I told them I land midfoot therefore how would extra material at the heel help me, I never got a convincing answer. Consider all the points of flexion within your leg: ankle, knee, hip which may help account for true leg length differences. Then consider the ground you run on - is it really perfectly flat and homogeneous especially off-road? Even the amount you over-stride forward will influence the distance between the point of contact and your general centre of mass. I know this may be too simplistic and zen-like but I firmly believe that landing softly midfoot with a bent leg has helped me. The best advise I was given, which has consistently worked for me was from BR himself: If injury causes loss of form then slow down.