HADD Training Method

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24/09/2013 at 14:02

Thanks for the advice guys.

Just went for my first 70% run this lunch-time. I was actually quite excited.  Really enjoyed the slow pace and actually didn't have too much trouble keeping the pace at 70%, which I think averaged about 5.35min/km.  Glad to finally get going. I've got my hand on the base of that toothpaste tube! It will be a long road ahead.

Brian - I usually run for about 45mins to 50 mins every day in my lunch-hour and then longer at the weekends. I wonder if the lunch-time runs are long enough for the adaptions to occur - I would go for longer but unfortunately I have to get back to my desk within the hour. Over time I was thinking of doing doubles on some days (lunch-times and evening). Do you think this would be effective or is it more about continuous time on your feet? 



24/09/2013 at 18:26

WOW, the thread got busy recently!

Carrie, safety first for me hence the choice of 4 wheels   Well done on the (almost) PB and yup, if you stick to 5k pace plus 5 minutes for a while you'll soon be bringing the HR down.

Teknik, am in awe of someone that does a 5 mile warmup before a HM then runs it at 7:49 so well done regardless of the HR. As always, impressive weekly stats!

Brian, WB stranger! Jeez, just after reading Tekniks mammoth warmup routine I see you did 12 miles to warmup for a 10!!! Not sure I'll be trying that lol. How id P&D going? remaining injury free?

VTrunner wrote (see)

HADD myself a run today... 

VT, I see what you did there and an excellent 21 miler! and yes, looks like your peaking at the right time

Dr.Dan, very nice run at the weekend and am sure you'll make the right choice re next weekend

Hi Johnny, I think Carter has it right re the HM and as for hitting a plateau after 3 weeks, I'm not sure that is long enough for any noticeable difference with HADDing. 

Carter, well done on the sub 3 minute mile Sir  and yup, hope a new battery sorts it. As for the food/drink over the weekend, thats me 7 days a week

Welcome to the thread James As always sound advice from the others re starting out and just remember, HADDing is a long term plan and not a quick fix. Well done on the run and glad to hear the toothpaste ananolgy getting an airing too

Mace, txs for the reminder and as a newbie 54 year old I consider you a relative youngster lol

Well, just a 4 miler and 2 miler left in taper before Loch Ness and went out for a 3 miler today - as always have been running the shorter runs (too) quickly and today saw a sub 30 minute 5k was on the cards at 2 miles so went for it. Muppet hear stopped the watch at 3.11 miles and 30:00 dead then messed up, started the watch again (for an unknown reason) and Garmin shows 3.13 miles and 30:11 - still a SB by 24 seconds so will take that. AHR was 76% but MAX was up to 86.7. It does look like I'll get to my target of a sub 30 min 5k with a sub 75%AHR by Christmas and will put that down to HADDing



25/09/2013 at 01:15

Yesterday off, 10 M recovery jog today. Legs felt a bit beat up after Sunday's effort. Will probably have another easy run tomorrow. I would like to get another subLT session in this week and then decide on whether my 16 ml LR this weekend will be easy or progressive. Any taper advice (Brian, you still lurking?). I'm balancing getting all I can before race day and not reinjuring my ITB. It's been a fine line for the past 7 wks now...

25/09/2013 at 06:34

I'm back now   mixing it up with hills.    Noticed I had terrible drift last night.    It was warm and I needed a drink but suspect I have lost some aerobic condition.    Will this come back with the long miles? 


25/09/2013 at 12:30

Mace, good to hear from you. Much the same as you really - had 18months off marathons to concentrate on the shorter distances, specifically to transfer upwards aiming at another crack at sub2.55 mara.

James,  time-on-feetis important to the development of your aerobic system so doubling up will help. Be careful though, and keep one eye on  not increasing the mileage (or indeed time) too quickly. But my view is that 2x45mins does not have the same benefits as a 90min run.

Andi, I have been mara training (15 week build-up) but not p&d. My own schedule and this time I have changed things mainly around speed sessions. Never bothered about speedwork til the last 4 weeks or so before. But after taking some advice I have done the faster stuff right from day 1. Another big difference is when I have previously done my mp work, I have always run this session (sort of like a hadd sub-lt) by running 90 mins with 70mins at 83%. This pace increases as the improvements occur.

But this time I have run at target mp from the start, and built the time.

25/09/2013 at 12:37

Ran out of space -

Vt, ah taper. Taper schmaper. I hate tapers. But for the record here is my take.

I prefer a 2 week as opposed to the text book 3 weeker. 3 weeks out is normally my last 20miler. Then start to cut volume but not intensity. 2 weeks out I prefer to do an easy 18 miler. Then 1 week out a 13miler with some (up to half) of it at target mp.

In the last week I do 3 easy runs (8, 6 and 5) and 1 harder run of about 7 or 8 miles with 2 or 3 at target mp. Rest tues and saturday.

Hope that helps.

25/09/2013 at 12:44

Spen,  your aerobic fitness wil return quickly, and yes the long runs are the key sessions in pushing up the lactate threshold and growing the mitochondria. 

25/09/2013 at 12:45

Ran out of space -

Vt, ah taper. Taper schmaper. I hate tapers. But for the record here is my take.

I prefer a 2 week as opposed to the text book 3 weeker. 3 weeks out is normally my last 20miler. Then start to cut volume but not intensity. 2 weeks out I prefer to do an easy 18 miler. Then 1 week out a 13miler with some (up to half) of it at target mp.

In the last week I do 3 easy runs (8, 6 and 5) and 1 harder run of about 7 or 8 miles with 2 or 3 at target mp. Rest tues and saturday.

Hope that helps.

25/09/2013 at 12:45

Ah refresh thingy. Some things never change. Its good to be back.

Andi, is it Loch Ness this Sunday?  Wow thats come round quick!! The very best of luck (not that you'll need it cos you are very well prepared).

Edited: 25/09/2013 at 12:54
25/09/2013 at 12:53

I've done 2 5k+3m runs now and averaged 75% and 76% but my HR does rise somewhat when i go up the mile long gentle hill. Is there a rule for going downhill, do i still stick to my 5k+3m pace or can i let it go a little? Have also knocked the dreaded cigarettes on the head as well, not that i had many but i suppose 1 is 1 too many really.

Oh and i got in the ballot today

25/09/2013 at 13:01

Hi carrie, as with the hr,  the pace should (will probably) change as you go up and down the hills. This shouldn't affect the average by much though. When I tackle a hill I tend to have a max in mind, mainly so I dont work too hard. Just relax co ing down, but aim to keep your form ( lean forwards a little, so as to try and maintain 90' to the ground).

25/09/2013 at 13:06

Congrats on the ballot and giving up the fags!

25/09/2013 at 15:21

Just went for another 50 minute 70%HR run today and according to my Garmin my average pace was 5.54/km. Was a bit surprised  as my pace yesterday for the same HR and same course was 5.39/km. Anyone find that their pace varies from day to day? Perhaps it is because my body is still getting used to the slow pace (my legs actually feel more tired than when I used to go for my faster runs...weird!). I wonder if over time my pace will stabilise a bit more.


25/09/2013 at 16:18

Brian, Thanks for the info. That helps me a lot. The 21 mile run was 3 wks out...so this weekend I'll probably shoot for 16-18 easy (and work in an 8-10 mile subLT effort before then). It's been a strange build up as I lost about 8 weeks of high volume training due to injury, then have had about 7-8 weeks to chase that lost fitness down. I might have gotten enough back to make things interesting though.

And Andi, good luck and knock 'em dead! You're ready!!

25/09/2013 at 17:36

James3 - think of ALL the things that can affect our millions of cells in our body - food, drink, sleep, rest, exercise, stress, fatigue, ambient temperature, humidity, etc., etc. and you will understand that no two days will be the same. What you are aiming for is a consistency over time - not from one day to the next, so honestly don't worry about it, the consistency will come over time. I was the same when I started HADD - same route, same pace - different HR - now all I look for is change over maybe a 4 to 6 week period.

Andi - YOU WILL SMASH IT Good luck (no pressure - whole of HADD thread will be waiting)

25/09/2013 at 19:33

Brian, yup, it's this Sunday so fngers crossed Good luck with your Mara Brian and it will be interesting to see if/what difference the extra speed sessions make to you time.

VT, BeDe, Carter et al, thanks for the good luck messages too

21 weeks training has now finished, an 18 week plan with 3 illness/injury weeks built in (took lazyitiss weeks instead). Thats 542 miles in 143 days 3.79 miles/day (26.54 miles/week). Am hoping thats enough for my first Marathon and will find out on Sunday lol.

Oh, had a great idea yesterday and went to the Charity Shop and picked up a pair of tracksuit bottoms and a hoody for £5.98 - the idea was to discard them at the start however they are quite mice so may keep them and wear something else to discard

25/09/2013 at 21:14

Andi, you may have just been kidding, but I say nothing new on raceday! After 26.2, you'll find even your normal wear will literally wear marks into you!!

25/09/2013 at 22:20

lol VT, nooo, I didn't mean I'd wear the 'new' stuff after the race, just that I might throw some other gear away. Have someone at the end to help me slip into one of those long padded swimming coats.

26/09/2013 at 10:02

Go Andi Go Andi Go Andi  ... best of luck!

I followed up Sunday's 18.5M ... with a 20M yesterday, with 5M at MP. Hard work but felt  Sunday's outing was too easy and that I needed one more "20". I have a 10K race on Sunday (3 weeks to go) and I still plan to do a longish MP run (16M) with 2.5 weeks to go ... and then taper for 2 weeks.

26/09/2013 at 10:37

Dr.Dan - good running. What was your heart rate for the 20m run ?

James - I've been HADDing for 7 weeks now and no 2 days are the same for me. I look at my stats over each week and I havent seen much of a change over those 7 weeks yet. I am assured that the improvements will come in time but I expect it will take longer for me as I am only managing about 20 miles a week at the moment.

Andi - no more beer and rubbish food for you for the next 3 days ! Get plenty of sleep and 1 or maybe 2 little runs to keep the legs ticking over. Go smash it fella !

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