HADD Training Method

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26/09/2013 at 10:40

I ran in to work this morning. It was 7 miles fairly flat with a little climb towards the end. I had my rucksack with me so I had to work a tad harder and this was shown in the fact that I ran at 9:41 with an AHR of 129 which is about 4/5 beats higher than an average run at that pace. I intend to start increasing the weekly mileage now, slowly of course, and hopefully the knee will hold up

26/09/2013 at 10:53

carter ... first 12M were at 70-71% maxHR, then came the 5M at MP which, once HR had risen and stabilised, came out at 81% maxHR. Then I slowed down again to 73% for the last 3M as I was spent!! Interestingly, when I did a full 16M at MP a couple of weeks ago, my HR in the last few miles was also at 80-81% maxHR, so there didn't seem to be much difference between doing the first 10-12 easy or at MP. I felt better on the 16M run though ... don't think Sunday's 18+ was the best prep for yesterday's 20.

26/09/2013 at 10:57

Dr.Dan - so come race day, will you run to heart rate or based on how you feel ?

26/09/2013 at 11:33

bit late responding but thanks for the encouragement for my forthcoming Robin Hood Half carterusm - after three weeks of just running at sub 75% I'm curious what's left in the tank - I'm worried the answer is nowt. Great run to work today btw

26/09/2013 at 11:48

Quick post, sorry: Good luck Andi, and Roy, at Nessie !  Johnny best of luck at the Robin Hood half, and Mace, go print an awesome time at Folkestone

Dr Dan - well done on an impressive midweek 20.  I followed your idea and ran a "sub-subLT", with an 80% lid, printing 7:44mm and feeling much more relaxed. 

26/09/2013 at 12:36

Johnny- they'll be plenty in the tank! Ideally, a HM needs  focussed quality sessions but that shouls all come on top od a solid base. Enjoy the race while you bake the cake.

carter- I think I'll run to pace but keep an eye on HR as I don't want to go over 80% maxHR in the first 10M.

Tek - that's the same pace as my sub-sub-LT pace ... which I'm currently referring to as MP. How long was the run?

26/09/2013 at 12:47

Caterusm,

     interesting point your running with rucksack  gave you higher HR, suppose the same applies if you are X overweight !!

Teknik

    thxs

Andi

All the best and might bump into you this W/E.

26/09/2013 at 12:51

Dr Dan it was only 7m (ran out of time) but from here on I've got 2 subLTs and/or MP finishes to the long run, per week, and I'm going to do all in the 79/80% area, which for me is going to be "MP" - I've chickened out on 83% as (first half) MP HR

26/09/2013 at 14:06

Dr. Dan, great efforts but please, please mind the cake!! That oven is HOT lately. You've been pounding fairly relentlessly for a long stretch now and I can't imagine you need to do anything else at this point but simply not drop the cake when you take it out of the oven. Best of luck this weekend.

In my little corner, my ITB was tight on the last run so took yesterday off. Have PT today and will decide during the run whether this will be my subLT for the week or not. I think I'm the only person who hasn't run any races to prepare, but at this point I just want all appendages still attached and working moderately well at the start. My whole philosophy on the subLTs has been that they are the pace I hope I can run over the last 6-10 miles of the race. For me, that would be 7 to 7:10 m/m. But for the first (longest part of the race) I'm hoping that a 7:30-7:40 will feel comfortable and not blow the top off my HR. This is assuming all goes perfectly of course. Anyway, I'm hoping my next two subLTs are in the low 7 range to confirm what I've seen in my past few efforts.

26/09/2013 at 16:57

Haha VT ... I will hopefully keep the cake in good order! Actually, I've been more cautious than in previous years with my mileage volume... my average mileage since start of August (last 8 weeks) has only been 41 miles per week (with zero bike miles and zero swim miles). Also, in the past I've run just about 6 days per week, whereas I've averaged only 4.5 days per week over the past 8 weeks.

The 41 mpw mileage over the 8 weeks includes 7 "long" runs of 20.3, 20.3, 19.5, 22.3, 18.5, 20.0 and a 16.3M run at MP ... and 7 "quality" sessions made up of 4 x sub-LT runs, a HM race and 2 x 5K races. The danger with the lowish mileage has been that my long runs are often 50% of total weekly mileage. I'd rather be running 60 mpw with those long runs but there were too many risks involved in moving up to that volume after missing training in April and May. I've compenstaed by only doing an average of one quality session per week and taking extra rest days ... I'd prefer to do two sub-LTs per week but don't have the mileage volume to underpin it. 

So, the prep is not ideal... but if I can get the pace right and run a good race, without dying at 20 miles, I'll know that I can return with a better base next year and nail it.

 

26/09/2013 at 17:25

Dr. Dan, I guess I was only seeing the subLT and LR efforts you reported. Now that you explain the plan, it makes good sense to me. In a way, I've done the same as you the past 8 wks or so. Have kept my mileage at 45-50 per week; only usually running 4 days per week. But I tell you it has totally worked for me. When I started on the P&D (and was doing 60-65 per week) it was OK for about a month but then I just started to break down, fail to fully recover, and I was also burning out (starting to dread  the midweek 15 miler). I felt stronger/fitter when I was HADDING at 45-55 mpw (one long run with some subLT and one formal subLT). Anyway, that's my story and like you, will see what happens. I think I lack enough time at 50+ mpw to justify training at a higher volume than this yet...maybe next year, particularly if I can get my hips stronger/straightened out better.

26/09/2013 at 19:30

Just managed to get a ballot place for London 2014, so looks like my chance to "nail it" will come earlier than expected!

26/09/2013 at 20:09

Roy, good luck to you as well! Have decided to set off tomorrow now (had to go to Oban anyway) so will probs stop around Fort William Friday then take an easy drive along the route on Saturday.

Carter, this was sent to me when I was asking about wearing my CamelBak for the Marathon, has helped me decide to leave it at home

Dr.Dan, well done on getting in! Not sure how good VLM is for a PB for a seasoned Marathoner though?

27/09/2013 at 05:08

That's an interesting conversion, Andi. Especially considering that as we carb-load for the race, we actually gain several lbs in water (a consequence of storing all that glycogen).

Dr. Dan, I have no idea about European marathons, but I judge this is a big deal so congrats!

8 easy miles for me today. I felt recovered...legs were dynamic and had lots of energy.

Edited: 27/09/2013 at 05:09
27/09/2013 at 09:09

Good luck Andi!

VT ... yep, it's tough to get into London. I've failed 4 years in a row, so chuffed to get it this time. If an old codger like me runs sub-3:15, then you can claim a GFA place for the next 2 years (sub 3:05 for the young'uns). Tougher than Boston! No chance this time but I'll gun for it at London 2014 ... a good incentive to get into London 2015 and 2016.  

27/09/2013 at 09:41

got my last run in before Nessie last night kept it easy considering it was a group run at 75%, Andi, Roy hope to see you at the start line good luck to all racers this weekend

27/09/2013 at 10:10

Good luck for tommorow Andi, hope it goes how you want!

I not been posting much on the forum recently for various reasons, but still keeping up as well as I can with the HADDing, although as most of my training is on a hilly area, it doesnt work as well as I struggle too much to keep heart rate down on the longer ones. Still, the effort has really been worth it so far, my long run average is dropping, and this is on runs of up to 5 hours now, although on all of these the last 15-20% still drifts upwards more than I would like. But of course I have been done several up to 23.5 miles now! 

Even the 8 mile Tempos that I hated and struggled with, I now can do at 9:20 average with about 80% HR, a few months back I had to stay at 10 ish to do this.

I have one more long run next week which will be a 24+ then its taper time for Beachy, this I expect to be just over 5hrs at LSR pace. At least doing this many 20+ runs I get a good go at stamina/endurance building and HR managing 

Interesting about the extra weight thing, although its quite an obvious statement, its still supprising when you see it written down, and how much it adds over time. All my runs are done with a pack, which on the long ones weighs in at 8-11lbs depending how much water I take with me! Still, I plan to race with it anyway, just a lighter load for Beachy, then full load at SDW next year so training with it all the time will help?

Some good running/racing been going on, I have been watching, even if not posting 

Edited: 27/09/2013 at 10:15
27/09/2013 at 10:41

CheesyRider... 5 hour training runs !! whistles long and low .

Good to hear from you, glad your still Hadding, Beachy sounds undulating, is it ?

 I expect as winter approaches we will get less drift and for a while better performances.

As I recall last autumn I was able to hold ( lock in ) to a HR for much longer than in the summer.

Early lunch then off to the airport. Andi , Stewart, Alistair, I wish you well

27/09/2013 at 11:22

Its the only way I can get 20-24 milers in at my LSR pace  but it does serve several purposes, as I will need to do double that for SDW, its a great way to build up enough to start back to back LSR later this year.

Beachy is a continuous set of big hills over the south downs then back along the 7 sisters to eastbourne. Undulating probably isnt the word I would have used  hence the training staying on a hilly set of trails, I think I will need all the help I can get, but really looking forward to it now!

I have noticed that the long runs are easier when its not 25-30deg, drift is less than it was in the summer, and my ability to keep going has improved, I would like to think partly due to training long as well as lower temperatures.

27/09/2013 at 13:21

some excellent running guys and congrats to those with success in the ballot

Well, the specialist said I should run. Running will not make the injury any worse. And he's confident we can get my old body pain-free again with some patience and physio. Phew. All in all good news. I will try a very short run tonight and report how it feels. Dreading it a bit but who knows, it may actually do some good

Best of luck for your marathon, Andi.

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