HADD Training Method

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18/09/2013 at 16:56

Spen well done on the ultras, and I hope the injury sorts itself out quickly.  Hadd phase II is discussed on the second page of the can.milesplit thread Dr Dan posted at the top of page 1.  However, it's all intervals and is aimed at (a) races shorter than a marathon OR (b) slow-twitch runners looking to improve their marathon times.  For fast-twitch types doing a mara+, carry on with phase I, I think is the message.

BeDe sensible strategy, well done

VT excellent 16 miler !.  Your race strategy sounds good - if it weren't for the niggles then staying under 80% until mile 18 I'd call "very safe"

Roy looking good!

Andi that's good progress, and enjoy tomorrow's "flat" run

Stewart I think getting the heart to operate at lower and lower levels is the key to all this.

Dr Dan hope the legs feel easier now

Carrie welcome.  Yes stick to a 75%max ceiling - you can pick any plan you've previously used, and just use the mileage suggested - delete anything that says "tempo" or "fartlek" or "intervals", and just run the miles as an easy run.  You will probably find 75% too easy, but stick to it, unless you're running slower than your 5k pace+3mins per mile, in which case run at 5k+3 (like BeDe) until that pace drops below 75%. 

SubLT went badly today - 7:39mm, 11 seconds slower than last week, and HR flattened at 83% instead of the 81.5% from last week.  I think yesterday's sodding around with the club tired me out...

18/09/2013 at 16:58

Chick sorry x-post - bad news ! I hope that turns out to be less serious than it first appears...

18/09/2013 at 17:04

Chick ... fingers crossed for you.

Carrie - welcome. Good advice already given.

Teknik - all good training. Sub-LTs are going to vary, especially if you've been sodding around!

5.3 miles at 8/m and 77% maxHR (I'm going to do a good amount of  "everday running" at this effort level over the next month). Legs a bit tired but much improved on the last 2 day DOMS-nightmare.

18/09/2013 at 17:27

Tecknik and Chickadee (hope you get better) thank you for the advice, much appreciated, after 2 years of running i'm back to being a newbie   I am gonna miss intervals tho and a little worried about slowing down but i know its all for the greater good.

And thanks all for the welcome.... now off to go beat myself up on a hill to find my MHR

18/09/2013 at 17:36

Welcome Carrie and don't be nervous about asking lots of Q's, I did (and still do) though made a booboo by doing 5 months of HADDing using WHR and ended up running everywhere at an average of 77-78%MAX! (should have asked about that before I started lol).

Spen, Teknik, answered your Q better than I could, it looks like too much hard work for me.

Chick, fingers crossed for you, I had an op on a degenerative disc - 3 months recovery but it didn't 'fix' the problem and its only since I started running that I've been relatively pain free. Fingers crossed it's a pulled muscle and if you can stand the pain try and ease up on the painkillers as they could mask issues and you could end up doing more harm.

Txs peeps, the 4 mile flat run turned into a 6 miler on an undulating route - HRM was playing up in the first 1/4 mile and hit 99%MAX (I blame Carter). 10:50mm's @ 73% and the last 3 were running into wind gusting to 28mph

18/09/2013 at 18:25

Hi, I've been lurking on this thread for some time. I'm just getting back into Hadd training after a back problem, which flared up in early May. No sooner had I got the all clear to resume running than I somehow managed to twist my knee while cooking

Chick, I would strongly recommend the McKenzie Method for dealing with a bad back. See http://www.mckenziemdt.org/

I was in constant pain when sitting or lying in bed and it spread into my left glute as well.  If I spent 10 minutes in a car, it would take me 5 minutes to straighten up when I got out. A friend pointed me towards a McKenzie physio and I was soon on the mend. There's also a book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Treat-Your-Back-Robin-McKenzie/dp/0959804927. Hope you get sorted soon.

I'm running at sub-75% MHR and gradually building up my mileage. Did 42k last week and am hoping for an uninterrupted winter of Hadd training.

18/09/2013 at 23:08

Chick, I don't like the sound of that at all. I concur with others...hope very much it's something that can quickly be resolved. Healing thoughts coming your way.

Dr. Dan, glad to hear the soreness is receding. I like your idea of some slightly higher effort pacing for your last month.

My sub-LT today was a bit tiring. I managed a 7:18 pace but ave HR was 165 (83%). The pace felt comfortable, but I was just tired (not necessarily my legs, just me). Haven't been getting much sleep as I have a HUGE deadline at work. Haven't been eating well as a result...haven't been getting more than 5-6 hrs sleep each night. Plus, did my progressive LR 2 days ago. So I'll chalk this one up as hay in the barn. Life can be exhausting sometimes.

19/09/2013 at 10:31

Chick, hope the back pain improves and your feeling better soon

Tek, still a good LT run, next one will be better and as you've said the club run the day before might not have helped

DD, nice run and good to hear the DOMs are clearing

Carrie, PeteHew, welcome

Andie, nice running and into the wind, hopefully it will be a little less breezy today

VT, nice LT run especially given that you are tired and stressed well done


8 mile run with 5 @ LT not the best of runs, the hip flexor felt a little niggly and HR was up but managed to hit the targeted pace, average HR was below 80% but drifted up to 83%

19/09/2013 at 13:09

Afternoon all and welcome to the new HADDers.

Chick - hope the back gets better soon

Teknik - dont worry about having a bad run, most of your runs are pretty good from what I've read.

Dr.Dan - does "everyday running" mean you're going to run every day ??

Carrie - I'm new to this HADDing malarkey too and these guys have been rally friendly and helpful so you should stick around

Andi - well done on achieving 99%, that's very impressive I bet the weather is lovely in Craggy Island at the moment ??

PeteHew - you're going to have to tell us how you got a knee injury while cooking ??

VT - keep at it. We sometimes have to battle on with our running when life gets in the way.

Stewart - stretch and roll, stretch and roll, stretch......

Our local running shop, Accelerate in Sheffield, held an event last night in conjunction with Salomon. There was kit available that we could test on a run and I tried the new Hellraisers. It's the first time I've run in proper fell shoes and they were really good, so I'm off to buy some tomorrow which I'm hoping to wear if I can make it to the Stanage Struggle fell race on Sunday 

19/09/2013 at 13:18
Ok so I didn't get out for last night for my mhr run, hubby said I had to put the bike back together. .I thought that was his job! Anyway with it being cold and wet today will that affect it or does it not really matter?
Good luvk with your run this weekend carterusm its supposed to be warm again yay!
19/09/2013 at 13:32

Carrie - my view is that the current weather shouldn't affect your heart rate too much. I believe it will be the more extreme temperaturs, both hot and cold, that could. The more knowledgeable HADDers will be along soon to confirm or put me right !

19/09/2013 at 14:10

Chick - you have my sympathies

chickadeee wrote (see)

busy thread! sorry for radiosilence - Bit of an injury nightmare for me. Either a herniated disc or a pulled muscle in my back. unable to move much ... strong painkillers and injections. not happy ... 

Edited: 19/09/2013 at 14:10
19/09/2013 at 14:26

Dr.Dan you've got me thinking - I've got 2 subLTs coming up per week from now on, and I think I'll dial one back to 78/79% to see how much more comfortable it seems.

Andi that was some headwind!

Pete welcome and good luck on the easy mileage build up

VT that was an impressive subLT with so much going on

Stewart well done on the MP run - hope the hip niggle goes quickly

Carter the new kit sounds good

Carrie it won't matter.  If you can't get round to the MHR test, you can in the meantime use, say, your peak in a 5k race + 5 beats?

BeDe hope all is well

Chick how do you feel today?

14m MLR for me this morning, felt very sluggish for the first 6m then joined the club and had to speed up.  All ok here.

19/09/2013 at 17:48

hi guys, thanks for all the nice comments

MRT today confirmed a prolapsed disc. it will hopefully pop back on its own. painkillers, injections and physio for the next couple of weeks ... great timing


19/09/2013 at 18:59

Welcome Pete, you'll find a friendly, helpful bunch on here and happy HADDing  I'm with Carter and wonder how you did your knee whilst cooking!

VT, great run considering 'stuff' and hope things calm down for you soon.

Txs Stewart and yup, wind was down a bit today I hope the niggle doesn't become something worse and keep an eye on it.

Carter, looks like it's going to be a lovely Sunset now the rain have stopped (10 minutes after my run). I hope Mrs C has given her blessing for the new shoes? And hope the shoes are ok for the Fell Run, looks harsh at 1165ft incline over 10k.

Carrie, is that you on the bike in your profile piccy? I thought you meant you had to put the cycle back together at first. As has been said, wet weather shouldn't sway a MAX test much if at all so get out there and do it

Teknik, yup, the headwind was hard work however, my pace was similar to the outward 3 miles - HR was up a bit mind. A 14 mile MLR always makes me smile, have just been going through stats from earlier on in the year and I was putting LSR down for 8k lol.

Chick, sorry about the news - take care. 

Managed my flat(ish) 4 miles today and was happy with the time. Back in June when I was running to WHR not MHR I did the same course with a 12:03mm pace and 76% AHR - today I managed 10:21mm's @75% AHR so something is working

19/09/2013 at 19:44

Sorry to hear the news Chick.


Read the thread about the phase 2.  And to be honest I cannot make any sense of it.,

19/09/2013 at 20:50

Big improvement Andi!

Stewart/VT ... all good sub-LT miles in the bank!

carter - no, I run 6 days per week at best and often just 5. By "everyday" I meant my filler mileage (i.e. not the LSR and subLT runs) which is usually 70% maxHR but, given I have 4 weeks to D-Day, I think I'll spend a little more time in the MP area as it's now feeling very comfortable.

Teknik - sounds like a plan. I like the 78% area at this stage as it feels like natural MP. Maybe one day 80+% will feel the same ... more work required first!

Spen - same here ... I only use Hadd for base-training.

An easy 5.3M again today ... perhaps do a sub-LT tomorrow if the legs feel recovered enough.

Edited: 19/09/2013 at 20:51
19/09/2013 at 21:53

11 miles today. Was hot again here. 8:30 pace at 74%. Still feeling tired, but wanted to get some distance in on the heels of the subLT. Not many more chances to stimulate adaptations. Will do maybe one 70% run then the last 20 miler Sunday.

Chick, I have no idea what a prolapsed disc means, but I hope, as you say, it can pop back in soon. Have you had an issue like this in the past? Also, I wouldn't fret too much. You still have A LOT of time before that race is here. A few weeks on the mend may fix more than just your back. Let's keep hoping for a quick recovery.

And sorry I haven't been keeping up with everyone lately...too much on the burner at work. Will be a better neighbor after October 7th (when my work project finishes)!

19/09/2013 at 22:16

I think they way I am going to do this from now on is.   Run 6 days a week.    One sub lt,   one hill rep   2 flat easy runs and 2 hilly runs. 

19/09/2013 at 22:27

Txs Dr.Dan, think this was one of those WTF moments you get

spen, that sounds like a plan, how do you run hills? steady HR, steady pace or something else? And is 83% a good guesstimate for LT? I've been here a while but feel like I (still) know nothing lol

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