HADD training plan

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14/11/2011 at 14:28
SHADES, Excellent dedication doing the 6am test. Good luck with the training. Are you not going to publish your results? Going "public" is great motvation/incentive.......
14/11/2011 at 17:26

Brian - I will publish the results when I do the next Hadd test so I can (hopefully) brag about how much I've improved.   I will do another test in 4 weeks and publish both for comparison purposes.

I get up at 4.30 to 5 am every weekday to train, don't care for running in the evening but will do a couple of doubles later on in my training when I need to top the mileage up a bit.

Crash Hamster    pirate
16/11/2011 at 09:22

Morning gentlefolk, please count me in.

I've entered the Severn Challenge starting at the end of May (5 day/210 mile stage race) and have never trained seriously for a running event before.

I started in the last week of October and am still in the 'build your mileage' phase of the training. My max. HR is 'high enough to use the same figures as Joe' (I hit 204, complete with tunnel vision and an urge to sit down and vomit, about 10 years ago and held 175+ on a bike for 2 hours solid up the Col de l'Ecre in 2008 so I'm damned if I'm testing it again ) and I'm currently doing all my runs at <150, so about 74% max.

My marathon PB is 3:47 and my 10k/1/2M times predict a 3:30, but I'm sure that I could drop these with a solid block of proper run training. I shall run a spring marathon (probably Stratford) as part of my SC training with the intention of being 'as quick as possible while controlling my HR'; I guess this renders the Hadd testing irrelevant for me as I can see my improvement over my standard running loops and I have little idea about a target time.

I am doing my long runs with a rucksack, as I'll have to carry one in my 'a' race, and a lot of my miles are off-road, as the 'a' race is off-road and I enjoy it more.

I started from being pretty unfit, but have taken nearly 11 minutes off my 10k off-road loop since the end of October, so something is definitely working

How have you all gone about setting a target time, or are you, like me, jsut going to see what materialises at target HR?

16/11/2011 at 17:32

Crash Hamster - I just googled the Severn Challenge, looks an amazing event, I might be tempted myself for even one of the ultras but off road is not for me.   It looks well organised, you'll have an adventure to remember I think.  

You're doing well with your Hadd training already.   I haven't set a target time but last year when I was in much better shape after a long spell of Hadd training, I had a glimpse of what my marathon pace could be when I was doing my Hadd test.

16/11/2011 at 17:46

Hi CH.... I'm a bit like you, couldn't be arsed doing the test, and used my maximum HR achieved during a race (this year thou)..... I'm using 180HR, but training at 130HR, which I don't find physically tiring, but find very heavy going on the leg's..... If this is the same for you then great, but if not try cutting back by 5HR to see if it keeps you any fresher.... The fresher you are, the more sessions and distance you'll be able to achieve, in theory anyway.......

Good luck with your training..... 

16/11/2011 at 17:54
Sorry CH, forgot my main point.... Would HADD training be any good for you, I know a lot of ultra runners don't have a high opinion of it.....
Edited: 16/11/2011 at 17:55
Crash Hamster    pirate
16/11/2011 at 18:25

Thanks folks.

Bluenose, why do they say it's no good for them? I had it down that the higher up I could push my lactate threshold, the further below my LT my race HR would be, so the fresher I'd finish, ready for the next day of my A race.  < /blind optimism>

If I can get my pace up for a given low HR, I get more recovery time before the next day's fun starts, which seems to be the key for the top boys and girls.

My legs are still feeling pretty good; I tend to et sore knees for a few weeks when I increase mileage, but I'm through that phase now and feeling pretty fresh at 4x mpw; just need to get above 50 next.

The weight is coming off slowly too, which is nice; 2 more belt notches to go though...

16/11/2011 at 20:34

I think we got to remember that the "HADD" program, is a Base training Program, recommended to take 12 wks, after that you then adopt another program depending on what distance's your doing..... I can't imagine how to start training for the event your doing, but I suppose its all about being able to operate at a low HR, with ton's of strength in your legs.....

Sorry just had to goggle it...... Are you mad......

Crash Hamster    pirate
16/11/2011 at 21:01

It scares me; fear makes me train

I've done a stage race before (off about 9 weeks' serious training) and the principal lesson learned was that the fast people had it easier; they probably weren't putting in much more effort per minute than me, but were out for half the time, giving them more recovery, so they were fresher the next day.

 I reckon I need to be aerobically fit as possible; I need muscular endurance; I need to be as light as possible; I need as much speed as possible while staying well under my lactate threshold; I'm reckoning on HADD, HADD and more HADD, perhaps followed by 10x400m at 3k pace for the last few weeks*.

While I'm improving at <150 ave HR, I won't change a lot other than to lengthen my long run once I get no cardiac drift, then I'll probably split my sessions to 145 and 155; hopefully 155 goes up to 170 by the end of May.

8 miles XC at 10:08 miling for an average HR of 145 today

Shades, 4:30 to 5am for training is really impressive! Even when my thyroid worked I couldn't function at that time in the morning



















* I was joking about the intervals

16/11/2011 at 21:56

What a difference a rest day makes. I did not feel too well on either Sunday or yesterday but I did do 9 on Monday.

Today was a steady 5 on the treadmill at 125bpm. 8:30 pace and felt very comfortable whereas in my 2 HADD tests I did 1.5miles at 8:53 and then 9:08 pace both at 120 HR whereas today I was much easier for 3 times the distance at only 122AHR.

Good to see lots of new faces to the thread. 

16/11/2011 at 22:05
It could be the weather Johnny.... You know what a difference it could make!!!!
Crash Hamster    pirate
17/11/2011 at 09:51
Sounds like a good improvement, Johnny!
17/11/2011 at 11:09

Welcome Crash Hamster, and good luck in the Ultra training.

JB, That is definitely a downside to the Hadd training. There are so many factors that can affect the HR, and therefore lead to some disappointing results:

Sleep

Eat/drink

Alcohol

Stress

Not feeling 100%

Weather conditions

Terrain

Don't stress too much over 1 or 2 bad ones, you are going in the right direction.

JB (and other fellow Hadders), What I've noticed is that you bang on the door for what seems ages, and then, almost overnight, something clicks and the door opens. You plod along at similar HR / paces for a while and then a big improvement takes place. For me, 2 sessions in particular help with this transformation:

1. The 2 hour run

2. The 2nd and 3rd 80% run (90mins with 70@80%)

Started my new regimen this week. 2 sessions a week at the gym with a personal trainer. Mon and wed. Walking like John Wayne. 5 weeks of core strengthening / flexibility work to contend with, alongside some hill work and long tempo stuff.

17/11/2011 at 13:20

Bluenose - I think Hadd is ideal ultra training and I'll be doing it a lot longer than 12 weeks, will take me at least 6 weeks to get to a stage where I start doing any work at anything other than 70%MHR.

I used Hadd training last year and my goal race was a 50 mile ultra and I had the best run of my life round an ultra, felt good all the way.

CH - LOL at the intervals, you did have me worried there

Johnny - brilliant news that you had such a good run.

Brian - couldn't agree more.   I've never understood that about the Hadd training, you plod on for ages and it's as if your body suddenly relents and says 'OK, this is working' and RHR will drop and training HR's suddenly produce faster runs. 

Crash Hamster    pirate
17/11/2011 at 13:44

Thanks for the welcome, Brian. Good luck with the PT; we both had a PT for a while, but one or other of us has been injured or ill for the last few weeks, so when we start again I'll be joining you in the John Wayne impersonations

Shades, glad to hear it's worked so well for you; I'm still trying to get to 50mpw at the moment, but will then be looking to cut back from 75 to 70% MHR.

I was expecting to find the plateau-plateau-plateau-plateau-breakthrough thing, but it's been plain sailing for me so far; almost every run is an improvement (another 1:29 off my 10k XC loop today at the same HR )  I suspect that this is because I'm not currently as fit as I used to be; probably when I stray into uncharted territory, things will slow down a lot. Having said that, I've never strung together some consistent running months either (best is 101, 103, 144, 102; most effective was 181, 156 miles) so I have no idea what several months at 150ish will do for me.

I'm just going to enjoy the rapid improvement while it's happening

17/11/2011 at 14:57

Hello all,

Glad to see a few new faces and that others are continuing to make good progress. All going ok here, other than this issue with very tight/painful soleus and achiles - both legs. In fact my whole ankle and lower leg area feels a bit sore, but I'm trying to manage as best I can. Main worry is I've got mild PF in my left foot, so have been doing lots of rolling with an ice bottle etc. Fingers crossed I can keep on top of it.

Training wise it's going ok. I'm just using the sample weeks Joe does as an outline really. Quite pleased with the 2 x 75 mins at 80% runs I've done, and due to some stuff going on work-wise I'll be working strange hours this week. So I've done my long run today rather than Sunday. Anyway, I did just over 2 hours at 140HR (so 77% Max) which came in at just shy of 15 miles, so 8'20 pace. That's about 10 secs a mile quicker than my long run on Sunday even though I ran for 30 mins more today. So just ticking along ok.

As Mr. Hadd says - be patient, do good work and improvements will come!

17/11/2011 at 16:52

LS21 - slowly slowly monkey business and all that.  Good stuff, hope the injury holds out.

Brian - good luck with the PT. My core exercise is progressing nicely, got my plank up to 5 minutes now.  There's a target for you!

14 days till I start running again... 

17/11/2011 at 17:00

LS21, Healing vibes being sent your way. Yes a very direct connection between the calf and the foot, both ways. Keep the calf as loose as you can, as well as the foot.

PhilP, 5 min plank is ace. Not tried for a while, but I think 90s was my limit. 14 days to blast off!!!!!!!!!

You are gonna have to keep a lid on to start with. Don't blow yersen to bits.

17/11/2011 at 17:23
Oh yes, I'll be good.  To begin with I'll effectively be replacing some of the walking I've been doing, so I'm sure I can get myself into a nice Zen-like state and tick over at <140bpm. 
17/11/2011 at 19:25

Shades... If you were'nt doing HADD training, you'd be doing something simular, I think some ultra's looked at HADD as a bit of a rip-off from their own training manual......

Second week of training still going fairly well, mileage not as high as first, been training with the start of a cold, which is now full blown and eventually got me to stop..... Got a couple of 10k races coming up (I know its not part of the plan), but it'll be good to see how the data compares to the race at the end of last month......

Safe training guys.......

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