HADD training plan

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11/12/2012 at 15:55

No problem NN, I genuinely take an interest because I am a genuine supporter of all things Hadd. It worked wonderfully for me (not just improvement, but enjoyment too) and I would sing it from the rooftops if I knew people would listen.

I also plateaud, but turned a corner in 2005 having discovered HR training. I am not stupid enough to think it will work for everybody, and I am also aware that some won't stick to it (they will run out of patience), but I do believe that 95% of us can make huge gains and benefit no end from developing our mitochondria. 

11/12/2012 at 16:01
Night Nurse wrote (see)

Thanks Brian thanks its great that you show genuine interest in everyones stats ,this is all new to me and I am well chuffed as at my age I really needed something new to boost my running I have been at a plateau for  a few years and accepted that I wouldn't improve any more but its great to really see it in black and white with the stats ...I just hope I can better my marathon time next year. 

You sure will improve your marathon time based on how much you have developed aerobically, NN. I'm well impressed!

11/12/2012 at 16:42

Keir - congrats on awards

I recently bought P&D book - very interesting reading but I have a ways to go before looing at one of their schedules. Perhaps for Lake Vernwy next year - don't know still got lots of HADDing to do. I've only just started short stints of 80%

Brian - which HM are you training for?

11/12/2012 at 16:52

NN - brillaint, that's what we like to hear, for all those WITH the patience it shows what can be done. I've only been HADDing for 15 weeks and although I'm not up to full mileage yet (aiming for 35 miles per week to do HM's not full M's) I just know this is right. Sometimes we have little set backs and start doubting what we are doing, looking for that 'quick fix' - well I guess quick fixes don't happen. Dedication ("is the name of the game and I wanna play the game with you") - sorry had a senior moment there and thought I was Roy Castle (for all those of a certain age) - dedication is what it takes.

Edited: 11/12/2012 at 16:53
11/12/2012 at 19:26


feel the same way about HADDing, for me I cant see any other way to train, and pass the word on to anyone who will listen.





11/12/2012 at 19:51

Tonight ran 17.88 k tried to keep HR between 125-132bpm 78%-82%.

1st 5k at 123bpm time of 25.16 mins 77% avg

2nd 5k at 127bpm time of 25.05 mins 80% avg

3rd 5k at 132 bpm time of 26.28 mins 82% avg

No break between 1st and 2nd 5k , but between 2nd and 3rd 2.88k at HR 131avg


Bit of a fade off on the final 5k but will work at that in the new year.This was on a treadmill hence the bit of messing around with the 5ks




11/12/2012 at 20:27

Great running all.

Whats the though on doing the 80% run on a treadmill during this cold snap? I was out tonight and while it felt safe to run at a slower speed (70%) I think it may have been asking for trouble with all the ice about to do speedwork.

12/12/2012 at 08:44

I've gont some stats for you Brian.  One of the problems I have is trying to measure improvement with HR / m/m. It is undulating round my way and this means that the only true way to compare fitness is to do the same run, on the same routes, following the same direction.

Here are a couple of 11.4m runs of mine over the same terrain, time of day and direction.


Distance Split pace Avg. HR
1.00 8:53 129 (68%)
2.00 8:21 140 (73%)
3.00 8:03 137 (72%)
4.00 8:04 141 (74%)
5.00 8:10 139 (73%)
6.00 8:02 139 (73%)
7.00 8:27 141 (74%)
8.00 8:57 142 (75%)
9.00 8:22 143 (75%)
10.00 8:07 139 (73%)
11.00 8:05 143 (75%)
11.41 8:46 145 (77%)


Distance Split pace Avg. HR
1.00 9:15 127 (67%)
2.00 8:19 137 (72%)
3.00 7:49 135 (71%)
4.00 7:55 140 (74%)
5.00 7:51 140 (74%)
6.00 7:56 141 (74%)
7.00 7:55 142 (75%)
8.00 8:21 147 (77%)
9.00 8:10 143 (76%)
10.00 8:00 141 (74%)
11.00 8:27 139 (73%)
11.34 8:29 139 (73%)

So 2 weeks later I averaged 2bpm less and pace dropped from 8.20m/m to 8.11m/m. 

12/12/2012 at 09:14

BD2000, entered the very popular Brass Monkey HM in York 20th Jan. Done it a few times over the years - it is flat and usually fast with good organisation. Headquarters in the Racecourse Grandstand, lots of parking. It fills up incredibly quickly, (2000 limit) within a day normally. Last year it was very windy and fast times were at a premium. The training is good but slow at the moment. Doing lots of work in the gym, hoping that the extra strength transfers into speed eventually.

How many times are you getting out at the moment? Seem to think that the frequency was a bit of a stumbling block for you..

Recordbreakers - now theres a blast from the past! Unfortunately I am of that age to remember it, the McWhirter twins adjudicating.

Roy, Keep the faith.... Well done on the dreadmill. I find it so difficult to do even paced stuff on there. It's so mindnumbing. I have to play with the speed to spend any real time on it.

12/12/2012 at 09:25

Keir, That's a good improvement. Incidentally, what do you classify that run as? What I mean is how does it feel? Is it an easy run, steady run etc.? Where does it fit in your schedule? We are pretty much in the same pace bracket, and I rarely do runs of that length and intensity. I will either do shorter (5-10miles) at a lower intensity, averaging between 65 and 70%, or runs of 8-13miles averaging 75%+ (these will be have some sort of effort in them, like intervals or 80%).

Presumably just a benchmark run? It does seem to be "in the middle" to me...


12/12/2012 at 09:39

That is a 75% run so between easy and steady. It is not hard to be at 142bpm, but it is not a recovery run either.

I am currently running:

2 - 3 x 5-8m runs @ 70% (easy / recovery),

2 runs between 10-14m @ 75% (easy/steady) with one of them having around 40mins @ 80%

1 other run - either an LSR or another 10m 70% run with a 45m bike ride straight after.

I have a fun boxing day muddy 2.5m race which I did last year and a muddy off road duathlon in mid Jan, again I did last year which will be useful comparisons (although conditions greatly affect times for these 2 races) but my first real test of this HADDing will be early feb at a local 10k. Last year I was 2sec off my pb with 37.21. This will be at week 1 of my 12 wk VLM build, so a useful time for a fitness assessment. 

12/12/2012 at 09:42

Re-reading your comment, are you saying that I would be better with fewer 75% runs, but more 70% and maybe another 80% run? I assumed I was squeezing the 70% up the tube and planning to consolidate 75% by adding only 1 80% over the next 5 weeks, but would I be better squeezing a bit harder and doing 2x 80%?

12/12/2012 at 09:54

Keir, So you are pure hadding at the moment, I had the feeling that you were building up to a race. No, I think that your content is fine. I think your progression should be to gradually lengthen the 80% portion of your run, to get to 70mins by the time you start marathon training. You can then either:

1. Build that to 83% (and that in essence becomes your MP run) or

2. Add in another 80% run, building the time (from say 40mins) again gradually.

Of course, theres no hard and fast schedule, and you are doing the right elemnts anyway, it would be just tinkering around with the 70,75 and 80% proportions.

Are you going to Hadd right up to the mara, or do a more traditional 12 week build-up?




12/12/2012 at 09:58

Thanks Brian.

I plan to Hadd up till the end of Jan, by which time I will have had 6 weeks of 80% running once per week, around 10 weeks of 50-65mpw and have a few 18m LSRs under the belt. Then I will start a 12 week P&D plan, but go a little easy on the LT runs, to ease in with a few weeks of M pace running first (85% for me).

12/12/2012 at 09:59

Nice statfest!  

Can't contribute much as I'm generally not using the HRM ... too cold, so it's just not reliable (clearly need to invest in some KY jelly ). So I'm running to perceived effort but, after 4 years of weaering a HRM for almost every run, I'm sure it's sub 75%. Last week's paces were  9:07-9:27/m, and I felt a bit drained ... whereas this week they've been 8:42-8:54/m and I've felt much better ... that's just down to adapting to the double-commutes and to clearing the cobwebs away after 2 weeks of doing nothing. Lot's to do - I'm someway behind schedule for the Brass Monkey HM compared with Brian...

12/12/2012 at 10:40

Keir, I would hold off on the LT runs in preference to giving P&D full beans. Not having seen the schedule, I would imagine it will have 4 hard elements, (VO2, MP, med-long/tempo and long) so the other runs should be very easy recovery runs?

DrDan, Sounds like the commutes are beginning to pay off. RE: BM training - I'm getting the miles in but the leg turnover is poor at the moment, meaning speed is at a premium!!

Hoping to get my ar*e into gear tomorrow (or Friday) with a few 3min intervals at 5k pace.


12/12/2012 at 11:57

Thanks everyone for the get well wishes

Still benched, so in my boredom I thought I'd (H)add to the statfest and repost some I put up on the Fetch thread, as encouragement to anyone lurking.

M            Miles        avHR%max        avPace

Jul            226       71                         10'26"

Aug          280       72                           9'52"

Sep          285       71                           9'25"

Oct           200       73                           8'59"

I only introduced one subLT run a week in October.   Base building works!


Edited: 12/12/2012 at 11:57
12/12/2012 at 11:59

Wow Teknik, those are big miles and good numbers! More healing vibes sent........

12/12/2012 at 12:32

 What Brian said!

12/12/2012 at 12:48

70mpw in base building!  No wonder you are bored now you are benched Teknik.

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