HADD training plan

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12/12/2012 at 13:00
Wow, some cracking progress on here by various people. Tis good to read that is.

Healing vibes to TEKNIK hope your going again soon. Is there anycross training you can do.

I've been cross training on the turbotrainer everyday at 70% and doing a strenth sessions everyother day. might as well improve strenth while not running. Interestingly the bike seems cause noticable drift even over just 30mins. I hope to see this improve asap.

Keep on hadding people.
12/12/2012 at 13:25

Thanks Brian and DD.

LOL Keir - actually October ended in a marathon - I just didn't do much else other than train slowly.

Andy thanks.  Doing some yoga, plus I started the 100 press-up challenge (but that has started to affect my ability to lift a pint glass...)

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 13:38
12/12/2012 at 14:31

AtD, good stuff on the x-training. It will help on the return to running. Is the turbo inside the house? You will get more drift if it is, owing to the extra heat/sweat, the heart having to work harder to cool you down.

61mins at 8m/m pace HRav 125 (68%)

12/12/2012 at 16:43

Loving the stats and the progression

I seem to be stuck pace-wise since my marathon. However, I put it down the cold out there. As much as I don't like heat my asthma plays up when it hits minus temps and breathing becomes a tad difficult. I can cope, I just have to accept that my pace comes out a fair bit slower at minus 5 degrees than it would at plus 5.

Did my first 80% run in a while today. Had to run back to the house after warm up to get my Yaktrax on. Snow melted yesterday, then froze overnight and more snow came down this morning. Cue some Bambi on ice moments

Splits were
1.  9:02 127 (warm up)
2.  8:40 136
3.  8:42 143
4.  8:42 144
5.  8:41 145
6.  8:44 145
7.  8:47 144
8,  8:49 145
9.  8:47 145
10. 8:50 145
11. 8:52 145
0.2 9:27 142 (cool down - would have done more but ran out of time!)

Normally my pace at 80% is around 8mm. But making allowances for cold, snow and ice I'm reasonably happy. At least the drift wasn't too crazy. 

GazOC wrote (see)

Great running all.

Whats the though on doing the 80% run on a treadmill during this cold snap? I was out tonight and while it felt safe to run at a slower speed (70%) I think it may have been asking for trouble with all the ice about to do speedwork.

I can't bear treadmills for more than 10mins . Agree, running on one is better than no running but if conditions are runnable I'd run outside. Another problem with 'mills is the heat inside. My HR is loads higher in a hot gym than it would be outside. And I never trust a TM's calibration

12/12/2012 at 17:19

Brian - managing 4 times a week at the moment.

3x 70min runs and 1x 100min+. Mileage at present 28-30 per week. Trying to get to 5 times and 35 miles per week.

What's your opinion on slightly less mileage if I'm only doing Half M's? Obviously things are going to take longer in terms of getting fully HADDed but I'm OK with that.

12/12/2012 at 19:47

Today was the dreaded "80% day", didn't bother with the treadmill and ran outside.

Another tough run, kept under 160 BPM until the HRM went hay wire and mile 7 and finished the 10 mile run 13 seconds faster than I've done it before at that heart rate but I've no way of knowing if I kept under 80% for those last 3 miles as I just had to run to pace and feel.

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 19:49
12/12/2012 at 22:57

Thanks for the encouragement !!

Chick I haven't had to get the yax trax out yet...seems alot colder where you live ..where are you ?

I dont know what to do ? I enjoy my mid week club runs, I dont go in the group which would be equal to my tempo pace about 7.40s as they go too far and I struggle after about 4.5 - 5 miles and I feel like its a 10k race, so I have been going with the 8-15-8.30 pace which gives me a nice 80% pace, a bit hilly at times but a manageable kind of hard if you know what I mean  like tonight just over 8.5 mils in 62 mins a good few hills too 

Now !!! I start the P&D schedule next week and it includes a 4 mile tempo, I a tempted to skip this and replace it with the usual mid week club run, I know I couldnt manage both one day after the other, anyone think that would be a good regular replacement for that weekly tempo run ? Or should I ask the P&D thread ?? confused ...again 

Gaz LOL @  dreaded 80% day...that's the trouble with all this nice slow running we get too used to it ..

Tek and ADT healing vibes to you  both, how bloody frustrating. I would be well peed off.

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 22:59
12/12/2012 at 22:58

lots of stats and good running going on, Teknik fingers crossed for a short stay on the injury bench

90 minute run for me this evening 8 miles @11:25 avg HR 137


 I had a toilet stop in the seventh mile, which would have affected the stats a little.  Two more runs and that will be week two completed

12/12/2012 at 23:11

I meant  over 8.5 in 72 mins  8.23 pace it worked out at over all , not 62 mins ( I wish )

Edited: 12/12/2012 at 23:12
13/12/2012 at 00:31
Night Nurse was still a good run that 8.5miler.

Its not bad for me really because I've not been stopped at all from doing core/strength work and I've been able to use the turbo trainer okay too. I started the turbo trainer with 20mins then did 22mins the same afternoon (impulsive) then increased by 10% a day since then. So each day has been:
AM- 20:00mins at 140bpm
PM- 22:00mins at 140bpm
AM- 24:12mins at 140bpm
PM- core work
AM- 26:36mins at 140bpm
PM- rest
AM- 29:15mins at 140bpm
PM- core work
AM- 32:11mins at 140bpm
PM- rest.
The turbo trainer is in the garage, so it's a cold affair for the first 5mins or so till I get warmed up brian so I have to wear an old wales hoody and hat +gloves. Today it was -2 apparently in garage so kept the hoody on for first 2miles brrrrr. Body not much of a problem really. I would like to keep the bike going actually even when I get running again.

Might try an do an easy run tomor......i mean this morning. Never felt no tightness at all in last 24hrs you see. So will take it slow at first.
13/12/2012 at 03:00

DIY surgery was a success! 10 M today...legs very fresh after two days on the rack.

Also, someone recently asked about HR in the AM vs PM. I've been watching the past few weeks and found that I am 5-8 bpm more in the afternoons vs mornings.

I also was interested in the distribution of 70 to 75% during the HADD phase. Right now my schedule is usually this:

M rest (although I would like to start adding a 7-8 miler here)

Tues 10-11 miles

Wed 8 miles

Thurs 8 miles

Friday 9-10

Saturday Rest

Sunday 13-16 miles (these will increase slightly as my lingering abdominal tear/scar tissue works itself out...but as of now, these distances are working well)

Any comments on the effort I should devote on these days? I'm not ready for the 80% yet (core work build up in progress), but when it arrives I would like to do this on Wednesday and spend a fair amount of time just having that single fast run (avoiding the second 80% as I got cooked from that in the spring). My overall goal is to qualify for Boston sometime next year...likely a Fall marathon. So between now and then I just want to maximize my  aerobic engine so I can hit 3:15 or less. My first and last marathon (Fall 2011) was 3:31 and I didn't do any 70% stuff. I ran too hard all the time training for that. Anyway, I may shoot to race a half in April, and perhaps some other shorter races through the summer.


Edited: 13/12/2012 at 03:03
13/12/2012 at 08:57

Santa, I know what it feels like when the numbers disappoint you, but after a session like that it should always give you that warm feeling, good miles in the bank. Cold has a negative effect just the same as heat. It would be great to do all our runs at 13' but we know thats not gonna happen. Sometimes I whimp out if it's cold/icy/rainy etc. and jump on the treadie but after 5mins I always regret it and wish I'd been braver and gone outside.

Gaz, If you can stick the boredom of an even paced run then the treadie is an option. You will sweat buckets, and therefore you may need to drink. Also the HR drift will be exaggerated owing to heat dissipation. But it is the safer option, and also better than missing the run. Set the gradient at 1% to replicate running outside. Dreaded 80%!!!! I look forward to mine... ok the 1st couple of miles feels hard but once properly warmed up, it feels "good".

BD2000, In some respects the race target is irrelevant at this stage. The important factor is that you are getting out as many times as you can and doing the right things. Your minimum of 70mins is ideal for building your aerobic engine. Keep the faith because, from experience the improvement seems to come almost overnight after a few weeks of consistency.

NN, Can you not fit both the tempo and the 80% in? Wednesday is a strange night for a club run tho, it would be easier to fit a Tues club run in. Whats your typical week look like with the P&D, and we can try and rearrange things.

Stewart, Well done getting the 90mins in. Keep on keeping on.

AtD, Great bike work and discipline. You are well switched on. When I'm injured / not running I sulk for England. End up piling the weight on which means its much harder to get back to it. How did the run go?

VT, Good news on the blister front. Can't imagine that it would make a whole lot of difference whilst staying below 75% but I would suggest: (Mon 75%) Tues 70% Wed 75% Thurs 70% Fri 75% Sun 70% Alternating easy and harder days. If you only envisage 1 80% day, it doesn't really matter where you do it. I would say the only criteria would be to avoid back-to-back with your long run. Replacing one of the 75% with the 80% would give you a reasonable balance - 1x80%, 2x75% and 3x70%. April seems a reasonble target date, gives you 18 weeks to build your engine.


Edited: 13/12/2012 at 08:59
13/12/2012 at 09:37

Adt cant you move the gear into the lounge  at least you are doing something, I wont say well done cos you are elite and that sounds stupid coming from a granny..


Our club runs are always wednesdays is that unusual then ? 

usual weekly P&D goes something like this

Mon.. rest/cross training

Tues..gen aerobic/ strides 8/9 miles for first 2 weeks then alternate that with tempo 4/7 miles everyother week

Wed ..medium long run up to 15 miles ( I was thinking of running 2/3 miles easy  before club and 2/3 easy after ) or would that be too fast for medium long . I did add 1.5 each side last night making it 11.5 miles in all. Is that silly/pointless ? I dont know  


Fri.. gen aerobic for first 2 weeks then Medium long run

Sat ...rec

Sun..Long run

VO2 max sessions arent introduced till week 10-15 thats when the tempo runs stop 

mine is the old edition I believe the new edition differs slightly, with the schedule STARTING with a tempo day 1 

Hope you can disect that 



Edited: 13/12/2012 at 09:50
13/12/2012 at 09:50

NN, It's just that the clubs in and around the area I live tend to do Tuesday and/or Thursday club runs. No matter - this is how I'd arrange it:

You shouldn't miss your club run, it's much easier to run in company. When you do Tues tempo, make the Wednesday run easy ie. go with the slower group. You can still tag miles on to make it med-long. Make friday's med-long the 80% in this week.

Make sense?

13/12/2012 at 09:52

Well it seems im back properly this time!   3 runs totally 20 miles this week.   Going to stick with 70% running until the new year for now.   Then go with the 1 x 80%,  2X75% and 3 X 70%,   Got to work out where to do them as need to do back to backs for my ultras!

13/12/2012 at 10:36

Ah yes good idea Brian ,why didnt I think of that ? there are a couple of slower groups running 9-9.30s .,I have just got into the old habit of running/chatting with the same people and  last nights run was neither one or the other really, I will look forward to trying that . I will park the car further from club each week as the runs progress ( good job we are all runners here....only other runners understand how mad we all are lol )

Edited: 13/12/2012 at 10:38
13/12/2012 at 10:43

Sensible head on spen. Good to have you back.....

13/12/2012 at 11:13

StewartC - nice steady splits there and good HR. I bet it won't be long before you doing an 80% run in your training. I'm having to go on pace at moment as HR monitor seems to be playing up. Shows how much I have relied on HR in the past to control my pace - now I'm going off 'feel' and it's much harder to judge it right

13/12/2012 at 11:55

spen, I have absolutely no ultra running or training experience so I won't even try. But it does interest me. I have fleetingly flirted with the idea, thinking it would make sense because I tend to get better relatively the further I go. What pace would you run your ultra - and would you expect to run your back-to-back long runs at the same pace?


13/12/2012 at 12:01

wow, busy on here!

NN: I'm in Hamburg, Northern Germany and yes, we do get lots of snow and pretty low temps. It was easier when I lived in Essex and ran in London before work. But there's always a way to fit some running in. I just have to accept that I run slower in the winter. Which is why I like Hadd - pace doesn't really matter as long as you work at the right intensity. I would be utterly frustrated if I had a plan that had me run at certain paces which I wouldn't be able to hit. My 12 week P&D plan has a first serious tempo run in week 2. I think I can manage that

A great 2 hours and 20 mins in offroad in the fields today @ 72%. Covered a pathetic total of a little over 14 miles but it was sooo beautiful. We had lots of fresh snow and the sun came out. And I have the day off - perfect . My legs are completely trashed now. I forgot how hard offroad running can be. Lots of rarely used muscles being applied to stabilise those legs!

Andy: that's a good XT programme. It'll keep you sane

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