HADD training plan

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13/12/2012 at 16:09

5m on the treadmill this morning. Only becuase it was icy outside. Anything is better otherwise. 

AtD - Man up - anything less than 1hr on the turbo doesn't count as training! Count the brick in your garage wall or something.

Stewart - how do you insert that splits picture into your post? Is it with print screen from Sporttracks?

13/12/2012 at 16:14

Keir, yes alt print screen into photoshop, crop image and save

13/12/2012 at 16:38

Ah that explains it Chick I thought maybe you were up North (me being a sounthern softie...lol

Keir thanks for asking Stewart that question , been wondering that myself but wouldnt ask..its a bit like asking a man to fix something, or take the lid off a jar, I like to try and do it my way before asking 


Edited: 13/12/2012 at 16:39
13/12/2012 at 18:18
This threads flying at the moment. Nightnurse to be honest I'm better off with the turbo trainer in the garage because its only cold for the first 4-5mins then its okay after that really. Body heat keeps me warm enough then, thankfully.

Keir- I started at 20mins then increased by 10% perday so today was 35:24 on the bike after doing my first run in 6 days. Only a mile in 7:46 but still its a start anyway. Lastly I did a 30mins of core work. Will reply to everyone later. Got visitors in a few mins.
13/12/2012 at 18:24

Brian!    I did 2 ultras last year.   35 miles and 50 miles.    I ran with someone slower than me so I have no idea at what pace to run on my own.    I did all my back to backs at about 72% i think.   I tend not to wear the HM much,   Always seems to play up,   prob need to try the KY jelly with it.


This year I am planning 4 ultras, ending with 100 miles!


13/12/2012 at 20:06

I understand AtD. - Why the 10% increase though? Is this a mental thing as cycling is very different to running. You can ramp up the hours on the bike very quickly without risk of injury.

Also I agree with the turbo / treadmill in the garage - firstly the sofa stinks after a few days of sweaty indoor workouts and secondly, the heat generated by running and cycling indoors is astounding. I was effectively running outside temperature wise this morning and was in just trainers and shorts (top less) by the end of the run (sorry ladies, no pictures!) 

Thanks Stewart. It does look better than just copying the text via right click, but I am not sure I can be arsed with the hassle! Glad the question was appreciated NN. 

Spen - 100miles - You're mad!

13/12/2012 at 22:34

BD2000, I kinda did a 80%+ run this evening during Jog Scotland run see below, I know what you mean about the HR monitor once or twice mine has given me very strange readings.

Keir, it really only takes a few minutes to do once you know what you're doing, good treadie run earlier, I struggle on them

Spen that's some serious mileage,

Brian, do these faster runs I do a couple of times a week have any impact on the 75% stuff

NN, which P&D plan are you following, I downloaded the book on my kindle last month and I was thinking of following the 55 mile on when I start training for Loch Ness in May.

Santa, your run today sounded awesome, I really enjoy getting out into the countryside as well, fortunately it is not difficult up here in Inverness

Tonights run was a non Hadd run with a 4 miles easy then 4 mile tempo with a hill thrown in for good measure. stats for the run below


 I enjoyed running in the snow tonight, but I did notice it requires a little more effort.

14/12/2012 at 08:27

spen, respect! Basically you are training for time on your feet then. Run-walk tactics no doubt. Best of luck to you.

StewartC, The faster runs will have a slight negative effect on the aerobic development I think. But this will be minimal if kept short. On the other side of the coin, the faster stuff is good for your general fitness and speed.

Analogy: Imagine a full tube of toothpaste. Where you squeeze the tube is the intensity of your run ie. the bottom of the tube is 70%-75%, halfway up the tube is 80-85% and 90% is 3/4 the way up. The amount of toothpaste you squeeze out is the aerobic development. So to get ALL the toothpast start at the bottom and work upwards gradually. If you squeeze from the middle, you will still get toothpaste but not as much.

14/12/2012 at 08:47

I undestand this theory, but there is also the evidence that short, high intensity training above LT and VO2 max also raises aerobic development. So using your analogy Brian, some tight short squeezes at the top of the tube actually pull up paste from the bottom of the tube.

I am reading the 'time crunched cyclist' which is a program based upon high intensity over very little hours per week. I am wondering about how some 1 - 4 min LT or VO2 max intervals will combine with HADD. I don't want to erode the HADD base I have, but also want to maximise my potential in as short a time as possible. Anyone with any ideas / or reading recommendations on this?

14/12/2012 at 08:54

Keir, yes I saw a documentary in which a bloke trained very hard for only a few minutes a day. This was supposed to increase the VO2, but it turned out that it did nothing for him. One of the conclusions was that 10% of the population could not increase their VO2 (I'm not sure whther it was just this way or anyway) because of their genetics! This fact blew me away, and I was instantly skeptical. So as far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on this one.

14/12/2012 at 09:06

Googled the doc - http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/242498.php

A variation on HIT, but only to "improve some measures of fitness". I think insulin sensitivity was the main one.

14/12/2012 at 09:09

This thread is moving too fast, i can't keep up, sorry

spen - respect indeed !! I watched " Running on the Sun" a couple of weeks ago which , for those who don't know, is about the Badwater 135 - a 135M Ultramarathon . What an absolutely brutal race through the desert - one person trained by hooking up a hot air blower to the treadmill and ran in a suit of some kind to simulate conditions. The winner did it in something like 24 hours ... for the equivalent of 6 and a bit marathons  When it's cold and dark outside of a morning as i head out for my run, i think of that race and what's ahead of me all of a sudden becomes a piece of piss

Keir - i think you must be right in that there will be some aerobic development at the higher intensity but you can't do enough miles at those intensities to fully develop.


HR monitor played up something rotten this morning - it was loose and i forgot the KY Jelly !!!

9M General Aerobic on day 4 of P&D ... no idea on HR but pace was 8:40

I was having a think as i cycled into work today about this HADD stuff that i started back in the Spring. I came to a definite conclusion that if i hadn't discovered it there is no way on earth i'd be almost a week through a P&D training schedule today. For beginners/novices with any ambition to run a marathon it has to be an absolute must.

I think i love you John HADD Walsh. RIP

Edited: 14/12/2012 at 09:12
14/12/2012 at 09:21

I saw that documentary as well Brian and that article summarises it nicely. But this is aimed at couch potatoes who do no exercise at all and are at risk of diabetes. I am talking about the benefit of High Intensity for active athletes to raise their aerobic threshold. Where as HADD pushes up from underneath, this pulls up from training above.

Happy days Mace. 

14/12/2012 at 09:34

This is probably the most interesting link I can find Brian, although it is not really what I am talking about. I suppose the approach taken in this article would be more the icing on the cake after several months of HADD baking! 

14/12/2012 at 10:13

mace. lol! It's novel when you start a new schedule. Keep us informed.

Keir, yes you are correct. So for these sedentary people walking to the shop would have the same benefits no doubt. The Tabata stuff obviously increases anaerobic capacity but does not increase the VO2 max any more than the steady state stuff.

Plucked up the courage to do a speed session yesterday:

9M incl 6x3mins(90s) Hoped to get 5:40 pace out of these as I did in the Summer. Temp was -2 and I really struggled to get "warm":

5:56/156 5:49/163 5:50/164 5:47/166 5:50/165 5:46/164

Pleasing thing was I got it done and banked, even though the weather was against it. What I did notice was I couldn't get my HR above 173! I would normally hit high 170s (even 180) in this session, as well as tempo. I'm thinking the cold put paid to that?



14/12/2012 at 11:53

Brian, I think I understand, so infact I'm squeezing from the bottom and middle of the tube, I'm enjoying the slower stuff I don't think I could have got to 40+ miles a week without it and I will reap the rewards for that next year.

Went out this morning for a 60 min run in the snow, it is not so easy to run in the snow, getting a good grip proved to be difficult and you need to work a litttle harder.

final run for the week 44.5 miles in total a distance PB



14/12/2012 at 12:27

Stewart - nice mileage, well done

Brian - leading by example !! Fine run 

Yes, the new plan is novel and i like having my mileage planned rather than making it up as i go along. I'm very slowly getting my head around how to do the P&D runs and for the General Aerobic, Medium and Long Runs i think they are basically a mixture of 70% (MP + 20%) , 75% ( MP + 10%) and 80% ( MP ) ..... does that sound broadly correct in your experience , assuming you've followed P&D of course !?

This seems to fit in with my McMillan predicted MP of around 7:40 based on recent 10M race in 71:13.

So i get ... MP @ 7:40, MP+10 @ 8:20, MP+20 @ 9:00 give or take a few seconds here and there.


14/12/2012 at 12:41

I am sure I read somewhere that it takes 10 years to build the aerobic engine to its full capacity?

14/12/2012 at 12:44

Mace -   From what I remember General Aerobic is your MP plus 15%,  Long run is MP plus 20%.

14/12/2012 at 12:56
spen71 wrote (see)

I am sure I read somewhere that it takes 10 years to build the aerobic engine to its full capacity?

Probably about right if you consider most olympians.

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