HADD training plan

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17/01/2013 at 10:57

Brian - thx for advice on PF. It only seemed to kick in after 3 miles (previously) which is when I stopped running for a week. This week it has been OK but towards end of 4 miles I felt it a little. Going to try 5 miles today and see if it comes back - doesn't happen when walking. However I will continue stretching. Funny my right shoulder dips as well

To all competing in BM - good luck, hope the weather is kind (mind you it isn't called BM for nothing I suppose).

17/01/2013 at 14:25

BeDe, Sounds like you may be lucky, and have caught it in time. It might be worth sticking at 3-4 miles, alternate some strengthening/stretching work, until such time as you feel a little more confident. The build it back up gradually... stretching/strengthening as you go.

17/01/2013 at 14:36

Good luck to all racing over the weekend, BD hope the foot get better soon

18/01/2013 at 06:17
Morning all.

Oh the black hole of a situation lance armstrong is in, cant believe I watched lance in all 7 tours an thought what a legend.
18/01/2013 at 10:26

Good luck to everyone racing ( fingers x'd ) this weekend.

chick - that's a fantastic progressive 19, lovely

VT - sure the rest will do you good. For me sleep is the no.1 priority, and if i don't get enough i'm crap. If you're working hard and not getting enough sleep, take it real easy.

BD - hope that foot clears, take care of it.

Brian - great confidence boosting tempo. I hope the race is on and you go smash it !!

Dr Dan - likewise, all the best. And some nice doubles going in

andy - hope the recovery is going ok , certainly sounds promising ?

10M for me this morning in the bitter cold ( -8 in some coastal stretches with the wind chill ) Bang on 70% @ 8:30 pace which i was very happy with considering it was fairly undulating

Oh, more of a shock than the cold was the moment about 5M in i realised i only had my base leggings on and forgot to put my shorts over the top .... i felt truly naked

18/01/2013 at 11:08

thx all - still taking it easy. Last night did 5 miles at less than 75%. A 'hint' of burning sensation in the heel but nothing like it was so I'm keeping miles low. May throw in some 80% work for a couple of the miles just to get used to the pace as race is only 6 weeks away. But I'm not going to do anything silly - listening to body first and foremost. Loads of snow here (Herefordshire) today - just made it into work. Hopefully clear tomorrow and can run.

18/01/2013 at 14:24

Sent home from work early, hurrah.

Unable to run due to really bad weather, boo

2 local leisure centres closed, more boo

Feet up drinking tea and eating crumpets, hurrah

18/01/2013 at 16:25

Hi all!

Sorry to butt in, been reading quite a bit of the thread and am someone thinking of following the old HADD plan & looking for some advice from you experienced HADDers.

1st off a bit about me, age 45, started running in 2004 and haven't stopped since!

PB's for distances are:

Marathon, 2.57.44 (Amsterdam 2011). ½ Mara, 1.22.39 (Alloa 2012). 10K, 37.49 (Dunbar 2012). Total Marathons raced: 17.

In 2012 ran 2500 miles and didLondon,EdinburghandColognemaras. Now, this is where the old HADD thing comes in, as someone who for the last coupla years has followed P&D plans with increasing success (i.e. my 1st ever sub 3 mara after numerous close calls), but at London I fell apart near the end and came in at an agonisingly close 3h 13secs, then the 2nd part of last year my running pace took a large step backwards culminating in a complete blowout in Cologne at mile 18 with a 'lovely' 8mile death march to the end. Horrific.

Anyway, I think the reasons for all this could possibly be A. too many miles and fatigue B. Training at the wrong paces. Like I said though, P&D have seen me good but possibly following their schedules may be a bit too much all the time for a bloke my age, so thought I'd give HADD a bash. I'm doing Edi mara on 26th May and currently giving my legs a rest with only 25 slow mpw and 2 days rest at the mo.

I've never run using a HRM before so it's kind of a different mindshift from P&D pace so, things I'm really not sure of and need a bit of info on are:

1. How long into the 'plan' should I start with Sub LT pace runs? I've tested myself between 35 – 40 bpm lower than my max HR (which is 175bpm) and this was coming at in around 7.38mpm pace, I’d like to get that down pretty sharpish as that’s way off my target mara pace (6.50mpm).

2. How long should those initial Sub LT pace runs be? And how long should the longest be?

3. I like to get 5 runs of 20+miles in training for a mara (up to 24miles), at what %HR should I be running these?

4. At what point in the training schedule can I introduce any kind of interval training, if any at all?

5. Warm up races – take it these are OK while doing HADD training? I’ll probably knock out a half and at least 1 10k preEdinburghmara.

6. Really, how long should I keep to the HADD principles before going into a different training regime with faster work i.e. LT runs and Vo2 max runs?

Sorry for all the questions guys, but I just want to get this right, I still feel I’ve sub 3 marathons left in me, but want to go forward with this training rather than backwards, to me it feels like a risk doing so much slow work though I totally understand the principles of HADD and have been doing a lot more slower 70% – 75% running of late and am feeling far fresher for it.

Sorry for all the waffle, and hope you’re all good, and look forward to contributing to the thread.

Cheers!

18/01/2013 at 20:45

Welcome Neil, do I remember you from the sub-3 thread?

1. How long into the 'plan' should I start with Sub LT pace runs? I've tested myself between 35 – 40 bpm lower than my max HR (which is 175bpm) and this was coming at in around 7.38mpm pace, I’d like to get that down pretty sharpish as that’s way off my target mara pace (6.50mpm).

Do the 70-75% stuff for a few weeks to build up to about 50 mpw before adding 1 80% run. 

2. How long should those initial Sub LT pace runs be? And how long should the longest be?

Start at 30mins and building up to 70mins at 80%. Wrap these runs up with warm-up and cool-down depending on how long you have. I tend to do 10mins either side, making it up to a 90min run.

3. I like to get 5 runs of 20+miles in training for a mara (up to 24miles), at what %HR should I be running these?

Initially, whilst building the distance of the long run and maybe the first 20, run them easy, as you feel. Just use them as time-on-your-feet runs. After that you should progress to adding some quality into the long runs, making the progressive or mixing up the pace a bit.

4. At what point in the training schedule can I introduce any kind of interval training, if any at all?

This is up to you and maybe will depend on how you feel, or how the sub lt runs are going. The way I do it is after a few weeks of 80% runs (or when the pace plateaus) I up this to 83% and this becomes the MP run. If appropriate these can be complimented by intervals/speedwork in the last few weeks. 

5. Warm up races – take it these are OK while doing HADD training? I’ll probably knock out a half and at least 1 10k preEdinburghmara.

Warm-up races are a must when mara training. Sensible pacing strategies should be employed though depending on distance and regularity.

6. Really, how long should I keep to the HADD principles before going into a different training regime with faster work i.e. LT runs and Vo2 max runs?

How longs a piece of string? Depends upon results I guess, how long term a plan you have and enjoyment.

19/01/2013 at 07:29

Morning Hadder's

Started my new job this week and its non stop ! first day one 15 minute break in 8 hours just enough time to have a brew. 

Anyway i took it easy this week as i've got Helsby tomorrow so only done 13 miles this week instead of 55, 

Roy where are you ? it must be bad... mmmm i love crumpets !!!!

Welcome Neil wish i could run your times !! only 1 min slower 10k and 3 min HM with no proper training so there is hope if i knuckle down. still half stone to lose.

Oh by the way how important is it to warm up as i've never done it and  recently have been feeling a slight pull in my hamstring ? am i being stupid ?.

Edited: 19/01/2013 at 07:35
19/01/2013 at 13:16
Peeved now been training hard for the helsby half only for it to be cancelled day before. Not organisers fault the weather was rubbish but fustrating. Going to look towards next race now. A half marathon in Febuary.
Might aswell go out for easy run today. No need to rest now.

Welcome neil.
20/01/2013 at 12:50

The pavements are still way to slippery here in Cardiff to run, so for the first time in 15 years I am going circuit training.

20/01/2013 at 15:29

Hi guys,

Just a small update, I decided to turn off the HR alarm on the Garmin, as it was in a sense stressing me out, for the last week I've been running @11mm for my easy pace and today I ran 12 miles 8 easy 4 @ HMP and there was very little drift up to the six mile.

Stats for the run

http://s3.runnersworld.co.uk/members/images/696098/gallery/20jan_0.jpg?width=350

 

AH1
20/01/2013 at 16:34

Welcome Neil

Stewart, how did those last 4 @ HMP feel?  Getting close to 90% must have been a test.

Comiserations to all those who have had races cancelled this weekend. Must be very frustrating and even worse if the replacement run has to be on the treadmill.

BeDe - keep it sensible.

I have had a frustrating week as well because the niggle last Sunday was bad enough for me to wait to see the physio on Weds who caused me a lot of pain and told me to take it easy. So I had 4 days without running and since have only done 2x5 miles plus one 10 mile all at about 70-74%.  Good news is that the niggle seems to have gone and the bad news is that these slow runs were slower than expected and felt like something of a regression compared with the week before.  

Has anyone else noticed drop in performance after 4 plus days off?

Will be pushing mileage back up this week but will probably not go much above 75% so we'll see how it goes.  At least the weather here is not as restrictive as it is in other parts of the country.

20/01/2013 at 16:47
Hollers, it was hard work, in truth I probably ran it a little too quickly, sorry to hear people has missed out on races this weekend, Mother Nature can be a bitch
20/01/2013 at 20:04

Stewart, a lot to be pleased about there  Very solid first 7 miles taking elevation into account and not much drift at all when you up the pace ... even that last mile with 53ft ascent @ 8:35 !! From them stats i would be confident your max is much higher than 188, closer to 200 i'd say.

Looks like the miles are doing the trick and improving your endurance. From memory, you have a while to go yet to your HM so will improve in that time hopefully. A weekly sub LT run and push the long run over 13M and you'll be steaming come race day   What was the target time ?

20/01/2013 at 20:25
Mace, I've got 8 weeks until the HM so I'll have some time to hopefully improve pace, my target is sub 2hrs my first was a 2hrs 3mins, when the hr went over 170 it was tough, 165-169 felt hard but after a mile or so felt comfortably hard could have done a few more miles @ that pace if asked.
20/01/2013 at 20:29

Stewart, i'd say 2 hours will be an absolute breeze in 8 weeks

Edited: 20/01/2013 at 20:31
20/01/2013 at 22:22

Stewart, confidence and more of what you are already doing.

21/01/2013 at 10:46
Hello hadders still here just been watchin the miles carefully. 60m 2weeks ago. 70m last week so feel thouraghly refreshed now.
Hope everyone else is doin good.
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