Mike, I would expect a MHR of > than 162 as I do not think you can hit a maximum in a race. You have to give absolutely everything for just a minute to get a MHR and I do believe that to be unlikely in a distance race however hard you think you are working.
I am interested in your times, which are very good, especially so for a 62yo. However I do not know where you get a target FM pace of 8:30 from. I am 54 and I have not hit any of those in my current period of training but they are all aspirational to what I think I could get to if I was racing (if that makes sense). However I am targeting 3:30 in April not 4:00. OK I might end up with 4 hours but the target is definitely 8:00mpm pace and see how it goes.
As to your final question, if you mean how long do you do HADD training for then it is a foundation or base training exercise and as such I plan on a 12 week cycle. I have used it for a slightly different purpose in that running slower is allowing me to run more and get much-needed miles into my legs quicker than I could do if I was doing quality sessions as well. However I see myself using the HADD technique during FM 16 week training which for me will start in early December (after only 11 weeks of HADD).
HADD will allow me to do double sessions at a steady pace to get miles in and also one longer run a week will be 75%AHR and this will form the dual purpose of a recovery run and getting miles in. I hope to be running around 45-50 mpw and if anybody has a good 16 week plan that they recommend then please let me know. I will hoping to do one tempo/faster 5-6 miler, a long run and a few steady runs. I will not be doing much interval or speed work for this race as it really is a 'getting a marathon under my belt and seeing where I am at race' rather than trying to get a specific faster time.. I am not going to PB over any distance any more other than 5K and I am happy to accept that.
Sorry to waffle but 04:30 and cannot sleep.
JB, (and others) Advanced Marathoning by Pfitzinger & Douglas is a good book to read re: training and schedules. They may be a little advanced but the principle is the same. You may need to customise the 50mpw schedule to suit. It's a really good read.
JB - I think Hal Higdon's Intermediate II training plan fits the bill very well. The P&D plan that Brian mentions is very good and I'd thoroughly recommend getting the book for the stuff on training in general, but the schedule is a little more prescriptive about interval sessions at the sharper end.
Hal Higdon's plan is based on 50mpw over 5 runs per week and only really includes either easy pace running or "race pace", so it would be very easy to follow off the back of HADD training, and easy to adapt if you wanted to tweak with additional mileage or the odd threshold session. It's an 18 week plan BTW but you'll be able to slot into it very well with the mileage you're doing.
 In fact I've just reminded myself that it starts off from a fairly low base (<30mpw) so you'd probably want to tweak the earlier part of the schedule anyway. The most important thing for me would be getting used to the weekly schedule of long run + mid-week medium long run + shorter runs including some MP runs.
I followed the HH imtermediate plan for my marathon back in May. Probably ran the LSR's to quickly and the pace stuff not quick enough but still took 13mins off my Nottingham back in Sep 10. As PhilPub says, it's pretty straight forward, although I found the RW Garmin plan I used for my marathon last month much more enjoyable, due to the variety of sessions.
Just under 7 miles for me this morning in a shade over 64mins, averaging 136bpm. A nice run on a foggy morning and in so far as I feel, the best after marathon month yet
I won't be switching to any other training plan, I will stick with Hadd all the way. That's what I've done before and that's how I reduced my marathon PB by 13 mins in 2009 and another 13 mins in 2010. Only speedwork I do is racing and the only work sessions are the ILTHR runs. Last year I also did a PB in 10k and 6 hour ultra. Using Hadd I can get my PB's and not get injured.
Not been on for a while but great to see some great progress being made (top 10k bluenose!!), and welcome to newbies, particularly Nick who I had a discussion with on another thread.
Trying to cut a long story short here and omit grizzly details, but I'm taking a total break from running for a little while. I've got myself into a serious overtraining rut. Google 'Chronic Overtraining Syndrome' and I hit just about every symptom listed! I'm obviously aware of self-diagnosis via the internet, but my performances have been shocking for months and I need to do something for my long-term future. I did a local 10k on Sunday (so I was eligible for our Club Champs) - I full on raced it and was slower than I ran the first 10k section at VLM back in April!
I think part of my 'obsession' is that my brother is very seriously ill. Cancer, kidney failure, major issues with dialysis (now had to have tubes fitted into his neck) and pneumonia. Running has been quite cathartic really, but I'm suffering serious burn out. I'm absolutely shattered, and everything hurts (problems with IT Band, Achilles Tendonitis and Plantar Fasciitis). I've been running through pain for weeks now, cos it helps me to cope with stuff. But enough's enough I guess - body has shut down!
I'd hoped Hadd might let me tick over and do more of an active recovery, but I've really gone beyond that stage. Time to be honest with myself I think, and take a proper break.
Will still be following the thread though, and hope to pick up on this again in the New Year (assuming I feel refreshed by then). Think it will be a good re-introduction to training and stop me doing too much too soon.
Good luck everyone, and sorry for the long ramble!
LS21, Very honest assessment, and I'm sure we all appreciate that. Try and enjoy the break (obviously with your bro the way he is, this is gonna be tough), and just forget about running for a while. Hope that when you decide to come back that your mind and body are healed. Good luck mate!
LS21, agree with Brian, very honest indeed.
A break does work, although it is hard to do it ! I ran both London and Edinburgh this year with a shin splints injury (I know I should not of done them !!) and I rested from all impact sport for 3 months and I now run so free. I have no pain and feel so much better for the rest. Of course I really missed running and was gutted to see other runners out, but a few months out is a small amount of time lost.
Really hope you get your mojo back and you become a better runner because of it.
Rather than looking for the perfect schedule, mix and match the best bits from a variety of schedules to suit yourself. For example, I don't think you can beat Arther Lydiard for base training, but some of the phases after are a little extreme. Jack Daniels running formula is the simplest thing to follow for speedwork and I also include some of Joe Friels cycling plan thoughout as well, as I love cycling as well.
I'd never criticise someone elses schedule if thats what they enjoy doing and they are improving though.
LS21 - Take it from someone who has virtually been away from running for best part of a year, the greater the rest the more the mojo comes back when it wants to. You've got a lot going on so a rest will do you good. All the best, mate.
I've got that very pleasant feeling of mild DOMS brought on by the recent introduction of a new activity, namely another session on the indoor rower (20 mins). Always good to get another muscle or two in on the action.
It's good to cross train, maybe not for improving your running specifically but for all round health. I've taken up Pilates and fell like its really helped with my posture and is starting to improve my running form. It's bloomin' hard mind!
LS21 you are making the correct decision - you cannot go on punishing your body as it will lead to long-term injury as well as even more unsettlement.
Symapthies regarding your brother - just try and ease up a bit yourself otherwise you will be no good for him.
LS21... Would just like to echo what everyone else has said.... And you'll know yourself when its time to return...
Thanks for the messages - very kind. Bro is doing ok I guess - but the talk of the rowing times got me thinking. They did a 2,000m thing at the gym where he was which he won (in 6'46 I think? - under 6'50 certainly). He was phenomenally fit, built like a brick sh*t house and didn't have an ounce of fat on him. He can barely walk up the stairs now - very very sad. But he's doing ok as stated, and he gets his home dialysis machine next week which will help a lot as he doesn't have to go to hospital 3 times a week now. And he doesn't have to go back with the cancer job until after Xmas (largely cos they won't do anything with him til his blood count improves). Lots going on, but there we are.
My training will be ok too. I've cut back a bit since the Summer anyway - knew I was on my arse, but still tried to do little bits. But my October mileage was down by about 40% compared to the rest of the year, but I was finding even the Hadd stuff tiring. Time to just stop I think. Not ran at all this week (not done anything this week actually!) and feeling a bit better, and certainly less achey so I'll be reet.
Sorry to hear Dan is still benched, but absolutely chuffed for Phil cos I know how much you've been through the mill in the last 12 months. Under 75kg is impressive too mate - I'm going the other way it seems!!
Did my first Hadd run last night, due to time it was a shorter run. I ran 3.33 miles, I think my ave pace was about 10.40 and average HR 126. I normally would run a short run at 8.30 pace (ave). My highest reading was HR of 142 and my lowest after the first half mile was HR of 118
Found it really easy and different to my normal style, which is run the first mile easy. and then blast it til I get home !!
Will do my LSR Hadd style on Sunday and then again on Tuesday and see how it goes.
Still find it hard to understand how SLOW can equate to FASTER times and longer running, but I have faith that over time it will work !
Sorry to hear about your situation, good luck to you and Bro...
Glad you will still be looking in on this thread as your comments were so helpful to me in finding this thread which has rejuvenated my enthusiasm for another marathon in the spring.
Good Luck Nick.
Funny Hat - yes, it's hard to comprehend how training at slow paces is going to lead to faster race times without any 'practice' at that faster pace. I can't explain why but it does work.
In 2009 after a good spell of Hadd training I was on the start line at Wolverhampton marathon, conditions were good at about 18 degrees and on a whim I decided to have a crack at getting a PB. I knew my training was going well but didn't know what pace to run so decided to do the first 5 miles of the race at 135 bpm (84% MHR) and allow myself up to 140 bpm(87.5%MHR) for the rest of the race. I stuck to those HR's and after the first few miles I fully expected the wheels to come off, in the latter stages I was overtaking runners that always finish ahead of me and I was still expecting to slow down but I didn't. It was 10 mins off my PB and I can honestly say that I didn't struggle at any time.
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