mace - 8:50 at 71% - cool stuff - thats my 86% pace . I guess in time (despite age) my aerobic development will continue to improve. Like Brian I'm targeting 2 races a year (at present these are only Half's) and I may one day move up to the big boys and girls event.
After Silverstone might do Vyrnwy - my plan for that would be to HADD up to 12 weeks before then do a 2/3rd P&D schedule.
mace, from small acorns...... Great stuff on the 70M week. Are you in base/Hadd mode or are you training more specifically?
At the risk of boring you all, specifically for Lee, here is a couple of weeks in build-up to VLM last year:
am - 60mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.
2 x (4xCentipedes/10xTRX single leg squats/12xTRX hamstring knees to chest/15 press-ups/16 lunges 6kg) 30s betwen sets.
2x(20xrussian twists purple med ball/12xswiss ball hamstring heel pull-overs/30s each leg buso balancing/8xburpees/10xeach leg/arm supermans).
C-dwn 3x30s hamstring stretch/hip flexor stretch/glute stretch.
lunch - 7M recovery 60mins 8:30/127
lunch - 8.7M hills 75mins 10x40s hills 8:41/127
eve - 2M recovery treadmill 8:22/115
2x(4xcentipedes, 12xscissor legs, 12xTRX hamstring pulls, 12xplank elbows to hands, 16xlunge jumps).
2mins stepper level 14.
2x(10xslow sit-ups, 12 heel pulls on swiss ball, 12xdead lifts green kbell, 30xmountain climber, 12xplank punches).
Cool-down stretches - Hamstring 3x30s with leg up, hip flexors kneeling, and glutes stretch sitting.
lunch - 8.2M recovery 66mins 8:04/122
lunch 10.4M easy 82mins 7:54/120
lunch 8.6M easy 69mins 8:02/118
am - 20.2M long 2h26 7:16/148 (7M warm-up then Liversedge HM in 87mins)
am - 72mins gym S&C: Usual w-up.
3x(4xCentipedes/20xpress-ups,12xTRX hamstring knees to chest/15xsquat and press(8kg dumbbells).
3x(20xrussian twists/15xswiss ball hamstring heel pull-overs/30s each leg buso balancing/8xburpees/10xeach leg/arm supermans).
lunch - 7M recovery 60mins 8:32/123
eve - 3.6M recovery 12:48/101 (Coaching - leading a beginners group)
Tuesday 14/2/12 am - 60mins gym: Treadmill warm-up then pplate, stretching, massage
eve - 10M track session 2M warm-up/1.5M cool-down, 8x4mins(90s jog/walk) 5:45-5:50 pace HRmax=171
am - 80mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.
3x(4xCentipedes/15xback squats(10kg),15sit-ups swiss ball, 15xreverse flyes swiss ball(6kg), 16xjumping lunges);
3mins level 14 stepper;
3x(40s side planks, 15xcalf raises, 15xTRX hamstring curls/16xknees to side, 20xrussian twists).
lunch - 5.4M recovery 44mins 8:09/121
am - 60mins gym: Treadmill warm-up then pplate, stretching, massage
eve - 10.4M track session 2M warm-up/1.5M cool-down, 8x4mins(90s jog/walk) 5:40-5:48 pace HRmax=174
lunch 8.5M recovery 66mins 7:48/128
lunch - 15M med-long 2h 8:02/130
am - 8.4M incl 5.6M XC Race 6:52/160
Jeez, the 15M this morning didn't knacker me but that lot has
I've got just under 8 weeks of 18wk P&D 55-70 to go for Brighton, Brian.
BeDe - and my 80% will be someone elses 70% etc etc until we get to the top boys knocking out sub5's over 26.2 !!!! If we keep putting it in we'll close the gap
mace - twas ever thus - how you finding P&D?? As I said I'm considering a two thirds mileage P&D schedule for next half
Brian - I gave up after Tuesday
Bede - i'm getting there but i think i've been running a bit too quick at times and should be putting in more easy stuff especially as the mileage is new territory. So P&D suggest for MLR's and LR's to do first half at MP+20% and second half at MP+10% .... i took that and basically that's how i've done every MLR and LR ( except the ones at MP )
In future i think i'll do one of them that way and one of them easy.
FEED ME... FEEEEED MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
mace, what is your target?
BeDe, That is the condensed version
8.8miles at lunch on the towpath. 71:49 (8:10/124)... but more importantly...touching wood.... calf is ok!
Mace, my 72% runs work out at 8.50 pace@ 115 bpm ave.
BeDe, also doing Lake Vyrnwy,3 weeks before Loch Ness marathon ,will run it at full mara pace.
Brian, is it, live to run or run to live.
Unloading week this week 3rd day of no running 5 miles tomorrow at 70%.
Brian - well from my 10M pb at the start of December, McMillan is throwing 3:20 at me I can't imagine that and without any mara experience i don't see me risking it. I'll more than likely go for 3:30.
What do you think ?
Here's the stats from this morning as promised ..... call it a reward for your opinion
A bit uphill and into the wind for the first 5 , 12-14 downhill and some with the wind , some of 14 and all of 15 uphill
M Pace HR %max
1 8:57 123 68
2 8:53 127 70
3 9:00 128 71
4 8:52 128 71
5 8:57 129 71
6 8:41 128 71
7 8:42 129 71
8 9:12 131 72
9 8:49 130 72
10 8:39 128 71
11 8:45 131 72
12 8:31 130 72
13 8:21 128 71
14 8:43 132 73
15 9:36 134 74
Tot 8:50 129 71
Taking elevation/wind into account there was very little drift which i'm happy about.
Mace my HR at 72% is 115 bpm my max being 160.
if you are working at 129 bpm ave on your run you might indeed be working too hard as it equates to 80% effort.
Or have I got it wrong.
what ever HR its still a good pace.
Mace please ignore the above, just one of those dooh moments.
BeDe - you have the same max and similar resting HR as me and you are at least a munute quicker than me per mile at the same HR ..
Brian - I got injured reading your training plan!! Makes my training plan look like child like crayon scribbles. You do a lot of cross training which was very interesting. Ive never heard rowing mentioned as x training option, is this instead of cycling?
I need to know whats P&D? Ive read a lot of Hadd now but not all ..?!
The one thing that worries me about Hadd versus parker or MaxHR versus workingHR is that the first one is not relevant to fitness as it doesnt include resting rate which is. I have a max HR of 183 and my wife who doesnt run has a max of 163, my resting pulse is less than 55 whereas my wifes is around 68? On MaxHR she would seem much fitter than me but on resting I would appear a lot fitter,
Great thread this lots of good content and banter!
Lee - you will see from my thread yesterday that when I first started HADD (September 2012) that my times at 73%-75% of MaxHR were MUCH slower than now. This is as a result of the base phase building which took 4 months for me. For someone aerobically fitter it might only take 2 months. To get to where I am today (with some limited 80%+ work) has taken 6 months. Also make sure you are comparing like for like and not using the HR reserve numbers.
Mace - great stats - keep em comin
mace, I will guesstimate on your 70% run above, but I would be happier estimating on 80% (or even better 83%) for the 10miles in the middle.
Your max looks like 180. You've done 8:45s for 128 (71%).
I am going to reckon on you being able to average 86% in the marathon, which is 155bpm. This gives you another 27 beats on top of the 128.
The conversion from bpm to secs/mile is between 3 and 4. My conversion factor is 3 so for your puposes I'll use 3.
27x3 = 81s.
Marathon pace is 8:45 - 81 = 7:24 pace. This equates to 3:14. Remember this is a huge guess at the moment.
I know you are doing a P&D plan at the moment. Does it include MP runs? What distances?
Ive just got back from a
Brian - love the stats stuff. I've always wondered about the bpm secs/mile - never got round to sorting it out. Now you've got me interested in something else!!!
Brian - my last MP run was 16 w12 @ MP
Overall the 16M was @ 8:04 @ 80% ave , and the 12M MP section somewhere around 7:45 and i was up to about 84% at the end of the MP section.
Lee - BeDe's patience is paying off, stick with it and your pace will improve for the same HR. I started out at 11:30 @ 70% and am now under 9:00 about a year later.
Lee, I row cos (indoor) cycling bores me. I find it much easier to achieve the higher heart rates on the rower as opposed to the bike. I have really got into the rowing on the back of being injured. It is a sport I would consider competing in if I couldn't run. The stepper and cross-trainers (skiing things) are good also for raising the hr.
I agree on the resting HR - it does change with fitness. But the starting point is genetic, just like cholestorol in my opinion.
P&D is Pfitzinger and Douglas. The authors of a very good book for the 26.2 -"Advanced Marathoning".
Brian - the way i see it is 3:15 is a GFA time for me. To go close but not under 3:15 would be gutting !! I think i'd be happier with 3:30 than 3:16 and there's obviously less chance of blowing up and having an awful race with a 3:30.
Having said that, i'm open to persuasion
BeDe, very pleased to oblige.
mace, 12M at mp is hard! How did it feel? I have done one run (outside a race) of that distance and never gone further. For your first marathon I would've suggested 80% 10milers as a better start point, and progressing to 83% for the last 1 or 2. When I mention these %ages, these are averages for the 10mile (or 70mins) section.
Brian - it felt ok, very comfortable at times when out of the wind. I could have done a few more miles i'm sure.
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