HADD training plan

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19/02/2013 at 15:36

Last hard run for me before Silverstone - will post it tomorrow.

20/02/2013 at 06:20

Bede - hope the hard seession went well!

Brian - so what does a typical training week look like for you?  Do you wear a HRM all the time?  I am currently running alone so have a control over what I do but Im probably missing out on the group benefits  ...there is a good club local to me but the night they meet I have other commitments and on Sunday they meet when I take my lad to rugby training   grrrrrr.

20/02/2013 at 09:50

Thanks Lee - this is how it went. By the way I stopped running in a group becuase I was pushing too hard - now feel as though I could go back to it and will some point in March.

Last hard session (thanks Brian) was intended as a pre-race confidence booster - now have 12 days of winding down. If this is not an advert for HADD I don't know what is - forget about the times they are nothing to write home about and may never be - it's the process of how we get there and what we can achieve as individuals that is important. My HADD training from September has been all about building up to the Silverstone half. My weekly mileage is low at 25-30 miles so it is important that my sessions are quality. Building a base for me was necessary and at times felt terribly slow (and was). After the base I started introducing partial 80% runs into my normal 75% workouts - it was still too soon!! Got injured - then found out it was my bl**dy new shoes not the 80% runs!! So from 75% runs @ 11:20 pace (yes that's right 11:20) this is what I did last night for my last hard session with 12 days to go;

Dist    Split      Avg. HR      Time
1.00    10:09  144 (78%)    0:10:09
2.00    8:57    148 (81%)    0:19:06
3.00    9:31    150 (81%)    0:28:37
4.00    9:15    151 (82%)    0:37:53
5.00    9:24    151 (82%)    0:47:17
6.00    9:32    151 (82%)    0:56:50
7.00    8:22    162 (88%)    1:05:13
8.00    9:08    162 (88%)    1:14:22
9.00    8:57    160 (87%)    1:23:19
9.87    9:16    148 (80%)    1:32:36

Felt good all the way round - 10mins warm up followed by 5 miles at 80-82%% then 3 miles at 88% with 10mins cool down. Not sure I could do the 88% all the way round but the 82% felt really comfortable and pace is on for a pb at that rate. Come race day I'm sure I should have enough in me to kick the last 3 miles at 88-90%. doesn't look like the sub 2hrs is on - plenty of time for that in the future.

20/02/2013 at 10:03

Lee, Yes, I wear the hr monitor all the time when running. Infact I wear it when doing most cardio exercise. I am hooked on the stats, and the measurement of fitness. HR is just another number to analyse.

My training changes depending upon the phase I am in. I periodise now, (since 2010) so as to have 1 or 2 targets per year. Following the target I will have a month of recovery which will include 1 week of complete rest, and 3 weeks of easy/steady running (no sessions or races). The build-up phases depend upon the target distance. I will extract a couple of weeks from the last marathon  (VLM Spring 2012) and half marathon (Eindhoven October 2012) build-ups.

20/02/2013 at 10:36

Sorry x-post BeDe. Looking back, for my last HM I did a 10mile race 2 weeks out. I tried to hit target pace (unsuccesfully), and I'm still not sure whether this was a good idea. May've been better sticking to the 2 paced tempo. Anyway the last time I did the 2 paced tempo, my race 10 days later worked out at exactly the same pace that I had done in the faster part of the tempo, ie. the last 3 miles. So, I think you may yet be surprised.

20/02/2013 at 10:40

Lee, I would look to joining a club. I'm surprised that the club you have looked at only have one training night. There will be others, and they may do 2 or 3 group sessions per week. But even if you can't attend the sessions, you will still benefit from the social side. Also meeting up at races, team events, relays etc. And there's the obvious financial benefit of reduced entry fees.

20/02/2013 at 11:15

Brian - yep, my aerobic development is a fair bit behind you mate  

BeDe - i agree with Brian when he says you may yet be surprised. Nice running.

This week is a record mileage week for me ( 70 miles ) , including a 12 w7 @ 10M-HM pace on Friday  and a 22 on Sunday. That's plenty enough for me, so for this morning's 15M MLR i stuck my HADD hat back on and targetted 70%.

The averages ended up @ 8:50 pace @ 71% and my HR was pretty solid all the way. Fresh as a daisy when i finished  Lovely run

I haven't got the stats with me at the moment but i'll put them up later this evening ..... i sense our STATS MONSTER is getting hungry



20/02/2013 at 11:24

mace - 8:50 at 71% - cool stuff - thats my 86% pace . I guess in time (despite age) my aerobic development will continue to improve. Like Brian I'm targeting 2 races a year (at present these are only Half's) and I may one day move up to the big boys and girls event.

After Silverstone might do Vyrnwy  - my plan for that would be to HADD up to 12 weeks before then do a 2/3rd P&D schedule.

Edited: 20/02/2013 at 11:24
20/02/2013 at 11:29

mace, from small acorns...... Great stuff on the 70M week. Are you in base/Hadd mode or are you training more specifically?

At the risk of boring you all, specifically for Lee, here is a couple of weeks in build-up to VLM last year:

Monday 6/2/12

am - 60mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.

2 x (4xCentipedes/10xTRX single leg squats/12xTRX hamstring knees to chest/15 press-ups/16 lunges 6kg) 30s betwen sets.

250m rower@2:00min/500

2x(20xrussian twists purple med ball/12xswiss ball hamstring heel pull-overs/30s each leg buso balancing/8xburpees/10xeach leg/arm supermans).

C-dwn 3x30s hamstring stretch/hip flexor stretch/glute stretch.

lunch - 7M recovery 60mins 8:30/127

Tuesday 7/2/12

lunch - 8.7M hills 75mins 10x40s hills 8:41/127

eve - 2M recovery treadmill 8:22/115

Wednesday 8/2/12

am - 60mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.

2x(4xcentipedes, 12xscissor legs, 12xTRX hamstring pulls, 12xplank elbows to hands, 16xlunge jumps).

2mins stepper level 14.

2x(10xslow sit-ups, 12 heel pulls on swiss ball, 12xdead lifts green kbell, 30xmountain climber, 12xplank punches).

Cool-down stretches - Hamstring 3x30s with leg up, hip flexors kneeling, and glutes stretch sitting.

lunch - 8.2M recovery 66mins 8:04/122

Thursday 9/2/12

lunch 10.4M easy 82mins 7:54/120

Friday 10/2/12

lunch 8.6M easy 69mins 8:02/118

Saturday 11/2/12


Sunday 12/2/12

am - 20.2M long 2h26 7:16/148 (7M warm-up then Liversedge HM in 87mins)

Monday 13/2/12

am - 72mins gym S&C: Usual w-up.

3x(4xCentipedes/20xpress-ups,12xTRX hamstring knees to chest/15xsquat and press(8kg dumbbells).

500m rower@2:15min/500

3x(20xrussian twists/15xswiss ball hamstring heel pull-overs/30s each leg buso balancing/8xburpees/10xeach leg/arm supermans).

Usual C-dwn.

lunch - 7M recovery 60mins 8:32/123

eve - 3.6M recovery 12:48/101 (Coaching - leading a beginners group)

Tuesday 14/2/12 am - 60mins gym: Treadmill warm-up then pplate, stretching, massage

eve - 10M track session 2M warm-up/1.5M cool-down, 8x4mins(90s jog/walk)  5:45-5:50 pace HRmax=171

Wednesday 15/2/12

am - 80mins gym S&C: 4mins on treadie, PowerPlate, roller massage.

3x(4xCentipedes/15xback squats(10kg),15sit-ups swiss ball, 15xreverse flyes swiss ball(6kg), 16xjumping lunges);

3mins level 14 stepper;

3x(40s side planks, 15xcalf raises, 15xTRX hamstring curls/16xknees to side, 20xrussian twists).

Usual C-dwn.

lunch - 5.4M recovery 44mins 8:09/121

Thursday 16/2/12

am - 60mins gym: Treadmill warm-up then pplate, stretching, massage

eve - 10.4M track session 2M warm-up/1.5M cool-down, 8x4mins(90s jog/walk)  5:40-5:48 pace HRmax=174

Friday 17/2/12

lunch 8.5M recovery 66mins 7:48/128

Saturday 18/2/12

lunch - 15M med-long 2h 8:02/130

Sunday 19/2/12

am - 8.4M incl 5.6M XC Race 6:52/160


Edited: 20/02/2013 at 11:33
20/02/2013 at 11:43

Jeez, the 15M this morning didn't knacker me but that lot has

I've got just under 8 weeks of 18wk P&D 55-70 to go for Brighton, Brian.

BeDe - and my 80% will be someone elses 70% etc etc until we get to the top boys knocking out sub5's over 26.2 !!!!  If we keep putting it in we'll close the gap 

20/02/2013 at 12:17

mace - twas ever thus - how you finding P&D?? As I said I'm considering a two thirds mileage P&D schedule for next half

Brian - I gave up after Tuesday

Edited: 20/02/2013 at 12:18
20/02/2013 at 12:40

Bede - i'm getting there but i think i've been running a bit too quick at times and should be putting in more easy stuff especially as the mileage is new territory. So P&D suggest for MLR's and LR's to do first half  at MP+20% and second half at MP+10% .... i took that and basically that's how i've done every MLR and LR ( except the ones at MP )

In future i think i'll do one of them that way and one of them easy.

Edited: 20/02/2013 at 12:41
20/02/2013 at 15:03


mace, what is your target?

BeDe, That is the condensed version

8.8miles at lunch on the towpath. 71:49 (8:10/124)... but more importantly...touching wood.... calf is ok!


20/02/2013 at 17:47

Mace, my 72% runs work out at 8.50 pace@ 115 bpm ave.

BeDe, also doing Lake Vyrnwy,3 weeks before Loch Ness marathon ,will run it at full mara pace.

Brian, is it, live to run or run to live.

Unloading week this week 3rd day of no running 5 miles tomorrow at 70%.

20/02/2013 at 18:29

Brian - well from my 10M pb at the start of  December, McMillan is throwing 3:20 at me  I can't imagine that and without any mara experience i don't see me risking it. I'll more than likely go for 3:30.

What do you think ?

Here's the stats from this morning as promised ..... call it a reward for your opinion  


A bit uphill and into the wind for the first 5 , 12-14 downhill and some with the wind , some of 14 and all of 15 uphill

M     Pace       HR      %max

1      8:57        123       68

2      8:53        127       70

3      9:00        128       71

4      8:52        128       71

5      8:57        129       71

6      8:41        128       71

7      8:42        129       71

8      9:12        131       72

9      8:49        130       72

10    8:39        128       71

11    8:45        131       72

12    8:31        130       72

13    8:21        128       71

14    8:43        132       73

15    9:36        134       74

Tot   8:50        129       71

Taking elevation/wind into account there was very little drift which i'm happy about. 

20/02/2013 at 18:59

Mace my HR at 72% is 115 bpm my max being 160.

if you are working at 129 bpm ave on your run you might indeed be working too hard as it equates to 80% effort.

Or have I got it wrong.

what ever HR its still a good pace.


20/02/2013 at 19:40

Mace please ignore the above, just one of those dooh moments.

21/02/2013 at 06:26

BeDe - you have the same max and similar resting HR as me and you are at least a munute quicker than me per mile at the same HR   ..

Brian - I got injured reading your training plan!!  Makes my training plan look like child like crayon scribbles.  You do a lot of cross training which was very interesting.  Ive never heard rowing mentioned as x training option, is this instead of cycling?

I need to know whats P&D? Ive read a lot of Hadd now but not all  ..?!

The one thing that worries me about Hadd versus parker or MaxHR versus workingHR is that the first one is not relevant to fitness as it doesnt include resting rate which is.  I have a max HR of 183 and my wife who doesnt run has a max of 163, my resting pulse is less than 55 whereas my wifes is around 68? On MaxHR she would seem much fitter than me but on resting I would appear a lot fitter,

Great thread this lots of good content and banter!

Edited: 21/02/2013 at 09:29
21/02/2013 at 09:29

Lee - you will see from my thread yesterday that when I first started HADD (September 2012) that my times at 73%-75% of MaxHR were MUCH slower than now. This is as a result of the base phase building which took 4 months for me. For someone aerobically fitter it might only take 2 months. To get to where I am today (with some limited 80%+ work) has taken 6 months. Also make sure you are comparing like for like and not using the HR reserve numbers.

Mace - great stats - keep em comin

21/02/2013 at 09:39


Morning all,

mace, I will guesstimate on your 70% run above, but I would be happier estimating on 80% (or even better 83%) for the 10miles in the middle.

My workings:

Your max looks like 180. You've done 8:45s for 128 (71%).

I am going to  reckon on you being able to average 86% in the marathon, which is 155bpm. This gives you another 27 beats on top of the 128.

The conversion from bpm to secs/mile is between 3 and 4. My conversion factor is 3 so for your puposes I'll use 3.

27x3 = 81s.

Marathon pace is 8:45 - 81 = 7:24 pace. This equates to 3:14. Remember this is a huge guess at the moment.

I know you are doing a P&D plan at the moment. Does it include MP runs? What distances?


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