HADD training plan

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21/02/2013 at 09:45

Ive just got back from a

Edited: 21/02/2013 at 09:57
21/02/2013 at 09:50

Brian - love the stats stuff. I've always wondered about the bpm secs/mile - never got round to sorting it out. Now you've got me interested in something else!!!

21/02/2013 at 09:58

Brian - my last MP run was 16 w12 @ MP

Overall the 16M was @ 8:04 @ 80% ave , and the 12M MP section somewhere around 7:45 and i was up to about 84% at the end of the MP section.

Lee - BeDe's patience is paying off, stick with it and your pace will improve for the same HR. I started out at 11:30 @ 70% and am now under 9:00 about a year later.

21/02/2013 at 09:58

Lee, I row cos (indoor) cycling bores me. I find it much easier to achieve the higher heart rates on the rower as opposed to the bike. I have really got into the rowing on the back of being injured. It is a sport I would consider competing in if I couldn't run. The stepper and cross-trainers (skiing things) are good also for raising the hr.

I agree on the resting HR - it does change with fitness. But the starting point is genetic, just like cholestorol in my opinion.

P&D is Pfitzinger and Douglas. The authors of a very good book for the 26.2 -"Advanced Marathoning".


21/02/2013 at 10:03

Brian - the way i see it is 3:15 is a GFA time for me. To go close but not under 3:15 would be gutting !! I think i'd be happier with 3:30 than 3:16 and there's obviously less chance of blowing up and having an awful race with a 3:30.

Having said that, i'm open to persuasion

21/02/2013 at 10:03

BeDe, very pleased to oblige.

mace, 12M at mp is hard! How did it feel? I have done one run (outside a race) of that distance and never gone further. For your first marathon I would've suggested 80% 10milers as a better start point, and progressing to 83% for the last 1 or 2. When I mention these %ages, these are averages for the 10mile (or 70mins) section. 

Edited: 21/02/2013 at 10:06
21/02/2013 at 10:20

Brian - it felt ok, very comfortable at times when out of the wind. I could have done a few more miles i'm sure.


21/02/2013 at 10:23

mace, thought so

21/02/2013 at 11:24

For the Stats Monster - all these are taken from 4 different runs per month from within the 70%-75% MaxHR range - all are averaged out and shows bpm secs/mile;

Sept - 5.25

Oct  - 5.01 = 4.5% improvement over previous month

Nov - 4.90 = 2.2% improvement over previous month

Dec - 4.70 = 4.0% improvement over previous month

Jan  - 4.64 = 1.3% improvement over previous month

Feb  - 4.52 = 2.5% improvement over previous month

Overall for 6mths I have a 14% improvement for this particular measurement

I'm sure Brian understands this better but at least it's a good way of measuring improvement. Does this make sense to anyone?

21/02/2013 at 11:55

BeDe, How have you come across the 1st figure - 5.25, 5.01 etc?

21/02/2013 at 12:21

Brian - I took the pace / bpm; e.g. 11:33 / 132bpm = 5.25

I then took 4 runs per month and averaged it out.

If we take your tempo run you posted on 7/2 yours worked out as follows: 5:59 / 160bpm = 2.25 (quick!!)

or your easy run on 9/2: 7:54 / 120bpm = 3.95


Edited: 21/02/2013 at 12:29
21/02/2013 at 12:43

So if my calculations are OK it follows that if we take an average of 155bpm for me (85% MaxHR) and say that is what I should be able to manage for my HM and put in 3.5 then my average pace would be 9:03 giving me a sub 2hr half (1:58)

Calculation is: 3.5 * 155 = 9:03

Given that my recent run at 82% 151 came out at 9:20 this gave me the following; 9:20 / 151 = 3.70

Edited: 21/02/2013 at 12:50
21/02/2013 at 14:43

Some really impressive stats.   Here,  ive been plugging away with the milage and some 80% run.   Was 10 miles at 8.23.

Brian for the LSR runs what %HR would you say do?  65%?

21/02/2013 at 15:55

spen - was that 8:23 for 80%?

21/02/2013 at 16:13

Yet another indicator of fitness! I wonder if I can fit another column on my spreadsheet?

spen, I would say it varies. I think the time-on-your-feet runs (most of your long runs) should be very easy, so yes 65-70%. When doing the harder sessions, either composite, intervals or progressive, I would aim to average about 75%. 

Yet another indicator (think I may've mentioned this) is beats per mile. Thanks Philpub. BPM = Time/distance*HR

The lower this figure the better. The lower results come from the easier runs.

21/02/2013 at 16:26

Sorry yes BeDe.   Im getting fitness back to where I was 18 months ago when I did a 1:41 HM.

21/02/2013 at 17:02
Brian. wrote (see)

mace, thought so


21/02/2013 at 17:06

Brian - I thought your 'between 3 & 4' which you mentioned to mace was calculated this way? No? Have I created something completely new?? I claim copyright NOW!

22/02/2013 at 08:49

BeDe, The seconds/mile is just a comparison between runs of a similar nature. The way I get 3secs/mile for each beat is by taking 2 runs and comparing them.


Run 1. 10miles@120 = 8:30pace

Run 2. 10miles@130 = 8:00pace

The difference is 10bpm for 30secs/mile, therefore for this runner, each beat is worth 3s/mile.

The comparison should be on runs of similar distance, terrain and gradient.

Your indicator is a direct measure of fitness - Pace(in secs)/HR. You have a mix of variables there though, the top number in the divide is pace, so the faster the pace the the lower the seconds the lower the result. The bottom number is HR and the lower this number the higher the result?

Your indicator would be better as speed(mph)/HR. The higher the speed, and the lower the HR, the higher the result.

Beats per mile works the other way. The lower the result the better. Pace*HR - The lower BOTH these variables the lower the result.

Sorry for my waffle.


Edited: 22/02/2013 at 09:01
22/02/2013 at 09:17

Brian - you extrapolated my max at 180 ... i use 181 as that's the most i've seen which was at the top of a hill at mile 12 of a HM. I suspect that it could be a tad higher ?

11M this morning with 6.5M @ 10M-HMP ..... so my target was to hit my 10M time of 7:07. The last 2 P&D LT sessions have been a bit limp due to snow and then illness. So wasn't really looking forward to it

Bloody cold and even bloodier windy  

7 laps of a circuit LT bit went like this :

Lap       Pace       HRav      %max

1           7:07       152          84

2           7:07       154          85

3           7:06       156          86

4           7:07       157          86

5           7:06       160          88

6           7:09       160          88

7           7:06       161          89

Tot        7:06       157          87


Had to push quite hard on the sections into the wind so i think this probably cost me a bit. Fairly tough run overall and i was glad to get it done - and delighted that i hit my target.




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