Laureate - I think you should just use a more traditional marathon training programme for Rome, you already have a good level of fitness so just a matter of getting the long runs in. First marathon is about dealing with the distance, after that you can decide if you want to do some Hadd training if you intend to run another marathon.
Thanks Guys, I appreciate the advice and will put my HADD aspirations on hold for the time being... It looks like the RW 'Intermediate' 16wk programme for me! Unless, of course anyone has any other first time 'recipes for success'? Notwithstanding, having spent last night poring over HADD's document, I find the whole idea fascinating and am already looking forward to giving it a go when I have time to do it justice.
BN74 - 17 years in Germany, huh? No doubt through the good-old Cold War when everything had a focus and the only thing that used to catch us out was an ill-timed ACTIVE EDGE - now that does bring back memories
SRM - enjoy the winter: it seems to have forgotton all about us in Naples - midday temperatures are still in the high teens which makes lunchtime running along the Bay an absolute joy...
All - despite reverting to a traditional training programme for Rome in March, rest assured that I will check back here regularly to get all the tips for next time around...! In the meantime, good luck with your individual programmes.
Welcome Laureate33. Interesting quandry. And I'm only going to make it harder for you, seen as how Shades has opted for tradition.
I would do the Hadd stuff, and FORGET about any speed training for this build-up. The circuits/gym work will complement the running I think, and the strength work will enable you to cope with the mileage. With 15 weeks available, I would do something like this:
1. 6 weeks of easy (Zone 1) running, building to 4 or 5 runs per week, and maybe 2 of them being 70mins or so. The long run should be about 90mins by the end of this block.
2. 5 weeks of Threshold work. Starting with an easy week where you cut-back to 30% of your current mileage. Then 4 weeks where you add 2x90mins with 70mins@80%. These should be done Monday / Thursday (if long run Sat), or Tuesday / Friday (if Sunday long).
3. Week 12 and 13 should include 1x90mins with 70mins@83% (These 2 sessions should give you an idea of your target pace).
4. 2 week taper - 1 week at 70% mileage, last week at 30% (not incl marathon).
Whatevere you decide, good luck and hope you enjoy the running / training as well as the event itself.
Laureate, Sorry to put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Before you make the final decision I would consider a question.
Do you intend this marathon (or long distance event) to be a total one-off, or can you see yourself pursuing the endurance event path? I think this is relevant because if it's the latter, I would DEFINITELY start with the Hadd base.
...well well, the plot thickens! (As I rather hoped it would...). I'm all for putting cats among the pigeons (as a professional 'Operational Assessor', its what I do best!).
Brian, thank you very much for giving me an option and for asking the key question... as it happens, I would very much like to think that this is the start of me getting into endurance running in a more focussed way - and not just traditional marathons. I am a very keen offshore sailor and having skippered an entry in the 'Three Peaks Race' in 2009 (i.e. non-running), I was pursuaded to enter as an 'all-rounder' in last year's 'Scottish Island's Peaks Race'. Needless to say that, as a keen hill walker, I paid lip service to the effort involved in running 40km up Ben More and back. Suffice to say I now know all about hitting the wall!
The bottom line is that I have always wanted to be a better runner. Being in the Army, it is something that I have done for years, but never been particularly good at. I've simply used it to maintain a base level of fitness for Rugby (and passing my annual tests, lol). However, now that the other half has rekindled her interest in running, not only is it something that we can focus on together, but having hung up my rugby boots a few years ago, I find that it is starting to provide me with new challenges (for instance, the Vesuvius Race). If I can achieve the base standard of fitness required to enjoy resonably regular half and full marathons, as well as the odd adventure race, I reckon it will keep me entertained into my retirement!
So, pending other views throughout the day (if there are any...) I shall plan on commencing 'HADD' with an 'HRMax' test in the next couple of days. I am really grateful to you for taking the time to suggest a programme and will report back regularly against my progress...
As I posted a short while back, I recommend Hal Higdon's Intermediate II marathon programme, which I think is a good "middle ground" between HADD training and some of the more complicated (i.e. overly prescriptive on speed training) marathon plans. It will give you the structure required to make sure you get a sensible build-up of long run mileage, but you can also choose (as I would do in your situation) to run all of the sessions at HADD-prescribed paces, with maybe a few quicker runs getting towards threshold pace, as you get fitter and closer to race day.
W.r.t. cross training, that might take a bit of experimenting with. When I was training for my first marathon I was happy doing a pretty lively spinning class on a Monday, the day after the long run, and treating it as "active recovery" but it depends how the sessions you've got in mind fit in with the weekly schedule (and just how hard they are!) You want to make sure you're getting enough recovery between harder/longer running sessions, especially when you're building up the mileage.
I like that idea - having had a quick scan at the programme, you're right, it offers the best of both worlds in the time I have available. I shall mull it over in comparison with Brian's suggestion and see where else I can cross fertilise in terms of pace/distance/HR.
Laureate - you'll be wishing you opted for tradition when you do your MHR test, it's not a pleasant experience but has to be done!
sneglen - well done, a good start
SHADES wrote (see)
Laureate - you'll be wishing you opted for tradition when you do your MHR test, it's not a pleasant experience but has to be done!sneglen - well done, a good start
Mmmmmm, again, I'm not so sure a Max test is the best way to go, or even necessary. If you have recent HR info from a race, or even a tempo run, it can be derived to all intents and purposes. This might be a more sensible way to start, and then after a few weeks, do the max test when feeling more able to cope.
Mmmmmm, thanks for that Shades! And I am normally so fond of tradition too!!
Actually, I am holding off doing the MHR test until my legs recover from the 80 shuttle runs and lord knows how many squat jumps and burpees in yesterday's circuit session... I reckon it is probably best approached fresh.
As such, I have just cracked my first 45 minute HADD run at an assumed Zone 1 HR of 129 (i.e. 70% of 185bpm). Managed to cover 3.85 miles at 12:33 per mile. I suppose that's not too bad, but it was difficult to keep the pace down. That said, it was a bonus being able to really appreciate listening to some Eva Cassidy whilst having time to take in the scenery: both animate and inanimate (...well what do you expect? This is Italy and I am running along the Lido in town...)
I will endeavour to keep this forum posted on my progress on a weekly basis, by way of feeding this 'living experiment' we all have going on. On which note, it is good to be part of something!
Keep up with the PT - glad to hear I'm not the only masochist who can't resist putting himself through it twice a week!
Quick de-lurk just to say this Hadd stuff works - and for those that are only 3/4 weeks in, be patient and rewards will come.
I have been much less militant re-HRs, and Zones so I cannot call myself a full disciple like many on here. But as a starter for a crack at Comrades next year and to ensure I can happily increase mileage from 40mpw to 60mpw I have slowed all my running down massively - I am doing all my LSRs about 45 seconds slower than I previously did (probably on edge of zone 1/2), and I am doing 2/3 runs a week at really slow (zone 1 pace). I only rarely wear my HR monitor (it disagrees with my pigeon chest!), so I am afraid I do not have very detailed stats to prove it. What I do know though is that I am about 6 weeks into this slow slow running phase - and I have just finished a 20 mile LSR and I felt great at the start, great in the middle and great at the end, and I feel ready to do more. I was literally fighting myself not to push on for the last 6 miles, and that is a rare feeling for me. Two weeks ago on my LSR I really struggled - so it is a massive difference for me.
Look this is only a data point of one for me - but I am convinced that physiologically something is happening to me, that is allowing me to run much more comfortably for long distances (and ultimately to run a much quicker marra time or hopefully for me to complete an ultra).
Laureate - well done on your first Hadd run.
Now have you actually entered Rome marathon? - that's the next stage of your marathon training
The Rat - brilliant, I know the feeling that you describe, when that long run becomes really enjoyable and you're not knackered for the rest of the day
Have you tried wearing your HRM on your back? I read somewhere that was advisable for those that found the normal way uncomfortable.
Shades, not only have I paid my money for the Rome Marathon but, for good measure, we are signed up for the Roma Ostia Half Marathon (supposedly, Italy's most popular...http://www.romaostia.it/?lang=en/) on 26 Feb. I hope that will give me a good idea of what I can expect in the FM, 3 week's later... Any advice on what sort of pace I should attempt to run it at, given its proximity to the final goal?
Rat, As Brian says, thanks for posting - it is good to hear from those who are that bit further into the programme about the benefits to be had from sticking with it.
Laureate, If I were you I would run the half at slower than MP. Possibly setting off easy, and making it progressive. By then you will have some idea of HRmar.
So my plan would be to run:
4M easy, 4M steady, 5M at HRmar (86-88%).
The other alternative would be to "practice" the first half of your marathon. ie. Run it at your planned HR as per the first half of the marathon. For me this would be starting at HRmar - 10 (about 83%), and then letting it drift gradually up to HRmar - 5 (85-86%) at 6miles, and then finishing at HRmar (87-88%). But this may impact on your marathon as it is only 3 weeks before. Guess it will depend on your ability to recover.
I know I want to average 164-165 in the marathon, so I set off at 155, and aim to hit 165 at h/w. Hit 170 at 20, and then if the legs are in reasonable shape, 175 with about 5k to go. Throw it all on to the fire for the last 3 miles. My max is 187ish.
...And now the bad news!!!
Am not sure any training schedule really prepares you for the day after the LSR - really stiff today on recovery run - still managed to get my 7.5 miles in though, but not even sure my HR would have hit zone one I was shuffling so slowly!!!!
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