HADD training plan

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05/03/2013 at 09:32

Cheers VT - sounds like a very pleasant 65 miles - can only dream of such glorious weather. Off to the Alpujjaras mountains, Spain, in May so might get some nice warm runs in then .

Lee - did any of that I posted help regarding HADD being a training plan?

05/03/2013 at 10:04
Lee, Bede knows his stuff. He's hit the nail on the head.
05/03/2013 at 16:09

Well how did everyone get on yesterday?

Yesterday I did a 7m training run at less than 70% WHR.  Did out and back along the Grand Union canal near Leighton Buzzard/Milton Keynes.  Did it in 10m42s per mile, though first out section [it is flat] was much quicker with a HR around 138bpm [my HRM is not sophisticated to do break down so I'm estimating] and back I was some 30s / mile slower with a avg HR of 143.  So Im still getting a lot of drift and I am now seeing a plato'ing of improvement .

05/03/2013 at 16:19

Hi Bede  Im 1/3 through my plan for 3 10ks with the parker system/approach.  I'll see how this goes - I def plan to do a long aerobic session of 16 - 26 weeks i just might do a little bit of race stuff beforehand   ...Instead of doing a plan for the oxford HM I might ditch it and just start HADD or maybe train specifically using a HM plan then go onto HADD for autumn and winter.  But yes I think I get what he is saying in the doc and what Id need to do.

05/03/2013 at 17:34

Lee - I did something similar - did a HM last year based on some or other plan - kept getting niggling injuries as I was pushing too hard too quick. Then tried a 10K training plan - kept getting niggling injuries - dropped that and did another HM - less niggling injuries - then turned to HADD in September - only injury since then was when I changed my trainers!!

Keep at it and you will benefit - I also plateaued fairly early on - in fact looking back over my stats it was actually weeks 7-8 before I started getting some consistency in HR versus pace/time and then some gradual improvement in pace after then.

05/03/2013 at 18:10

I think what people do tend to forget with this is that you can go back to it whenever you want.    Like every year as a base builder.

05/03/2013 at 21:51
I will do HADD and it is my intention to use it as a winter conditioning program. I'm currently doing the Parker approach which is similar but NOT about dedicated time building a base as proposed by HADD system, though has exactly the same thinking at its heart.
05/03/2013 at 22:01

Have you a link to this?

06/03/2013 at 05:51

I do Spen thanks.

06/03/2013 at 08:43

Can you post it please?

06/03/2013 at 08:57

Sorry Spen I assumed you meant the link to the HADD stuff.  I dont have anything other than a book for the parker system [John L Paker - Compleat [US spelling!] idiots guide to heart rate monitor training].  The link for HADD is here and I think it was provided by Keir on page 133 of this thread.

06/03/2013 at 12:45

Hi folks, I am not new to the concept of HADD or HR training or slow runs being slow, but am thinking of paying more attention to HADD as a way of improving the base I have in place through existing HR based work.

My MHR is 186 (measured), resting HR 54 and I am 54. Run 3-4 times a week with Friday my LSR day, currently up to 14-16 miles on a very hilly trail circuit (I run at Bedgebury Forest mainly), with Av HR usually around 148-154 over the whole run. Sundays run is at 'recovery' pace with my partner who is a beginer but is up to 11k on this same hilly circuit at a very very slow pace, my Av HR sometimes goes over to 125 on this one . The other two runs are the same 11k hilly circuit but at a slightly faster pace depending on mood or tiredness, usually AV HR is mid to high 150's

I am a bit confused about the way HR is calculated in regards HADD, as I see some refferences to % of MHR and others in seemingly the same circumstances as % or WHR, which gives a big variance of value!

I use my iphone and ismoothrun/runkeeper to track these along with a BT4 Polar HR monitor. Thats where I start to get confused tho. With my MHR at 186, the phone says 70% is 146 (70% of WHR) but my 70% of MHR is 130! which ties in almost with MHR-50. There is a world of difference between me running at 130 and running at 146, hence the confusion.

Zone wise, the program says this,  which of course is ((MHR - RHR * %) + RHR)
Zone 1 (50-60%) 121-133
Zone 1 (60-70%) 134-146
Zone 1 (70-80%) 147-160
Zone 1 (80-90%) 161-173
Zone 1 (90-99%) 174-186

At the moment, I try to keep LSR around the zone 2 and 3 border, recovery is usually in zone 1, and the steady 11k's in zone 3, sometimes 4 on the loooong hills (longest is over 1k and does test me ....)

Dont get me wrong, since staying on HR based training, my abilities have gone sky high compared to a year ago, and injuries have dropped loads, but I know I can do better.

I have read the HADD 25pager (again after link was posted yesterday in a different thread, that rekindled my mind enough to type this!) With a better understanding of how it works, I want more. Those mitochondria, capillaries and aerobic enzymes for once make sense, even if it does sound like I will become Borg after a while ...

Training goal wise, I am registered in the Beachy Head Marathon in October, and want to feel able to complete at least 30 miles by that time, (for next year) and am happy at moment that I am half way there already. I have plans to do a 10k in June at Bedgebury, my local hilly circuit   just because I run there anyway, and a small number of other events, but my main goal is distance. I also prefer trails to road.

I can see that changing my LSR speed down a bit more will be one start, and I am happy with the sunday 'recovery pace' run, and also dont mind dropping both the 11k's down to easy pace, but I dont want more time consuming runs mid week. Once I get the HR value thing sorted, I can plan better. I do have a treadmill at home for more mundane stuff, but am far happier chasing squirrels and watching Deer than running in doors.

So to start with, what is the correct way to relate to the HR%, WHR or MHR? and following that, What suggestions would you give me as a way to progress with this method?

06/03/2013 at 13:26

Hi cheesey, If you are HADD it is maxHR and I tihnk the best thing to do is start by keeping your HR below 75% and until your pace is steady throughout your run.  I follow a 'slightly' different Parker system whihc is 70% of WorkingHR or a percentage  of the difference between max and resting rates.

I think hilly runs will cause you a problem as this will mean a lot of slow walking on either system, is there a flat section where you can do reapeats?

If you want HADD advice then youre in the right place   ...id go with HADD and MaxHR if I were you!

Im doing the Bedgebury trail run - looking forward to it!

Edited: 06/03/2013 at 13:27
06/03/2013 at 13:40

Hi Lee

The hilly bits are half the fun tho  but I do take your point and know how much it affects me! I do plan to strat running around Bewl (I live near both) which is considerably flatter, I am not keep on road running, in the country at night after work would be no fun and very dangerous around here! 

Ok, so MHR it is then. I have not got a lot to drop to 75% MHR which for me is about 139 so if I can at least average near that rate, is that enough? That would probably keep me in my current zone 2 all the time, which seems ok. (Z2 = 134-146) if I ignore the percentages. 

I could always change the zone numbers to match the new scale, but probably easier to just look at the numbers and work them out before hand.

Do I have to keep AT the 135 all the time? or is it acceptable to have 135 average, allowing higher on hills and lower down slopes? seems almost impossible to run the long hills and keep the rate that low.

06/03/2013 at 14:26
I will do HADD and it is my intention to use it as a winter conditioning program. I'm currently doing the Parker approach which is similar but NOT about dedicated time building a base as proposed by HADD system, though has exactly the same thinking at its heart.
06/03/2013 at 14:30
Hi cheesy. It's not an avg it's a limit. And 136 is it for you, it takes discipline. That will be hard on hills but is required otherwise it would be a bit like mini interval training
06/03/2013 at 15:11

So zone 1 it is then for easy! Mind you, I did notice that ALL of my zones show as 1 in my post earlier  oh well.

I'll start and see how it goes 



06/03/2013 at 16:16

Cheesy - I did a run today without runkeeper and without my HRM and just a good OS map.  I like running in the country - I loved xc when I was a kid.  Though I made sure I could talk easily  ... I walked some bits and stopped to look at the map from time to time.  This might help you every now and then 'get out and about' as Im the same as you I hate road running!

I do this type of thing every now and then.

06/03/2013 at 16:17

CheesyRider - wecome

I'm same age - you sound a lot fitter than me!!

HADD does say that you can go over the 75% but temporarily - in other words bring it back down as quick as possible. I run with some smallish inclines and at first had to walk them - now the HR rises slightly but not enough to warrant slowing too much. All my base phase training was done taking the average % of MaxHR over the whole run - but as the inclines were small and short it didn't greatly affect the overall figure.

06/03/2013 at 16:22

cheessy - make sure you let us know how you are getting on    ...there's Brian on here who loves stats and would no doubt like to see yours as you progress!

Im the junior then as Im 44 - wee slip of a lad me!

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