Quick de-lurk just to say this Hadd stuff works - and for those that are only 3/4 weeks in, be patient and rewards will come.
I have been much less militant re-HRs, and Zones so I cannot call myself a full disciple like many on here. But as a starter for a crack at Comrades next year and to ensure I can happily increase mileage from 40mpw to 60mpw I have slowed all my running down massively - I am doing all my LSRs about 45 seconds slower than I previously did (probably on edge of zone 1/2), and I am doing 2/3 runs a week at really slow (zone 1 pace). I only rarely wear my HR monitor (it disagrees with my pigeon chest!), so I am afraid I do not have very detailed stats to prove it. What I do know though is that I am about 6 weeks into this slow slow running phase - and I have just finished a 20 mile LSR and I felt great at the start, great in the middle and great at the end, and I feel ready to do more. I was literally fighting myself not to push on for the last 6 miles, and that is a rare feeling for me. Two weeks ago on my LSR I really struggled - so it is a massive difference for me.
Look this is only a data point of one for me - but I am convinced that physiologically something is happening to me, that is allowing me to run much more comfortably for long distances (and ultimately to run a much quicker marra time or hopefully for me to complete an ultra).
Laureate - well done on your first Hadd run.
Now have you actually entered Rome marathon? - that's the next stage of your marathon training
The Rat - brilliant, I know the feeling that you describe, when that long run becomes really enjoyable and you're not knackered for the rest of the day
Have you tried wearing your HRM on your back? I read somewhere that was advisable for those that found the normal way uncomfortable.
Shades, not only have I paid my money for the Rome Marathon but, for good measure, we are signed up for the Roma Ostia Half Marathon (supposedly, Italy's most popular...http://www.romaostia.it/?lang=en/) on 26 Feb. I hope that will give me a good idea of what I can expect in the FM, 3 week's later... Any advice on what sort of pace I should attempt to run it at, given its proximity to the final goal?
Rat, As Brian says, thanks for posting - it is good to hear from those who are that bit further into the programme about the benefits to be had from sticking with it.
Laureate, If I were you I would run the half at slower than MP. Possibly setting off easy, and making it progressive. By then you will have some idea of HRmar.
So my plan would be to run:
4M easy, 4M steady, 5M at HRmar (86-88%).
The other alternative would be to "practice" the first half of your marathon. ie. Run it at your planned HR as per the first half of the marathon. For me this would be starting at HRmar - 10 (about 83%), and then letting it drift gradually up to HRmar - 5 (85-86%) at 6miles, and then finishing at HRmar (87-88%). But this may impact on your marathon as it is only 3 weeks before. Guess it will depend on your ability to recover.
I know I want to average 164-165 in the marathon, so I set off at 155, and aim to hit 165 at h/w. Hit 170 at 20, and then if the legs are in reasonable shape, 175 with about 5k to go. Throw it all on to the fire for the last 3 miles. My max is 187ish.
...And now the bad news!!!
Am not sure any training schedule really prepares you for the day after the LSR - really stiff today on recovery run - still managed to get my 7.5 miles in though, but not even sure my HR would have hit zone one I was shuffling so slowly!!!!
Rat, suck it up.....
Brian, once again, excellent advice: I really appreciate it. Subscribing to this site is just like having your own personal trainer!
Traditionally, my ability to recover is pretty good, but then I haven't really ventured into these sorts of distances before. So, I might well go for your 4/4/5 plan - after all, the full marathon is the goal and it would be a shame to go off half-cocked.
I have printed off your post and added it to my growing portfolio of guidance on how to train over the next 4 months - I -particularly look forward digging it out in March next year and reminding myself about 'throwing it all on the for the last 3 miles!'.
Brian - I am still reeling from the suck it up comment !!
But - I have to agree with you fully - these threads are great if you are able to use them, and not let them overwhelm you. My three most important bits of advice would be:
(a) Ditto Brian above - Listen to your body
(b) Do not leave your best work on the training track. So many of us are competitive soles - and the temptation if you did your 8 mile run in 64 mins on monday to try and do it in 62 mins on the weds, then to get it to 60 the next week etc etc - Training faster and faster, and harder and harder only leads to one place - The injury bench. The big change for me came when I eventually (after a couple of injury ravaged campaigns) realised the aim of most training sessions should not be to run at 110%, instead do it at 70-80% so that you can adequately recover for the next one. Please note I am not talking abour heart rate!!!!
(c) Run slower
HADD(-inspired) recovery plan, day 1!
Dusted off the Garmin and set out aiming for 135-140bpm, and did pretty well generally, straying to a max of 144 on a slight uphill. Finished the run feeling like I could go round again, which I guess is half the idea, but a very satisfying feeling considering I've run about 20 miles all year. 5.02miles, 7:59/m, aveHR 136 = 68% max.
Too early to say how the hip feels about it so I'm not getting too excited but hopefully I'm on the right track now.
Phil, Whheeeeeaaaeeeyyyyy! Off and running...... Hope you have little or no reaction.
Rat, Absolutely agree with your points. Point b) is what Hadd is all about.
Laureate - as you recover well I would race the half marathon, but not a decision to make now. You need to see how you are nearer the time.
PhilPub - great news, hope the hip is OK.
Did a Max HR at lunch today. OMG it hurt . A couple of 800m with 2min recovery after a 2 mile warmup and a 1.5 mile warm down/crawl back to the changing rooms. Max showed at 178bpm, which is 2 down from where I thought it was but at least I know a number based on a good reading and not from a poor connection/guess work and recalculated 70% is now 138bpm.
One thing is for sure though, I won't be rushing to do another one. Did I mention that it hurt?
Great run today (Hadd #2...):
- 75 mins (which felt like a stroll around the shops)
- 6.47 miles
- 131bpm (fractionally over 70%)
- 11:36 min/mi (down a minute on Hadd #1...)
...what a difference a day makes - must have been the farewell pizza party (with mineral water ) that I went to at lunch time!
I approve of this 'run slower' lark: for the sake of taking 25% longer over the same distance that I did at pace on Monday (in my pre-HADD days.. ahem) , I feel like I have not been out and run it at all
Shades - thanks for the comment re racing the HM; I will indeed see how I feel at the time. Much will depend on how well I cope with the LSRs when I start piling on the miles. I suspect I'll feel like the Rat!
Anyway, enough for now. I promise not to bore you all with my results every day, but just felt that today was notable enough to deserve a mention.
SRM - well thankfully it's done now, so no need to repeat the test. If you didn't throw up at the end you can add on a couple of beats to round it up to 180.
Laureate - glad you're loving the Hadd training!
Progress report ;
My last 2 runs, yesterday was 70 mins with an average heart rate of 139 , which equated to 1min and 10 secs quicker per mile than the same run last week, and that was at an average heart rate of 147 .
And my second run today was 45 mins with an average heart rate of 140 with the same minute per mile time as above , and on the same route 2 weeks ago that was at an average heart rate of 150 .
Almost into my 5th week of hadd training and more than happy with the progression i am making.
Just a quick question guys , i notice in the hadd report that joe ran at different heart rates but all at aerobic pace is this something that i can do ? I do 2 long runs a week at a low heart rate could i introduce some slightly quicker heart rate runs , but staying aerobic ? but i wouldnt be starting them until after xmas .
patience seems to be the key.
Shades - No vomitting, just a chest that felt as though Alien was about to punch its way out. What I appreciate most from the run itself was that I now know what 178-180bpm feels like and when the HRM is giving similar numbers in the future I can now shrug it off. In the past it's been "I don't think I'm working at that level" but the little voice inside urges a bit of caution.
Good to see everyone doing well.
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