HADD training plan

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06/06/2013 at 19:15

Today was a recovery 5M run. I went to the PT again. Turns out I have a fairly significant imbalance going on in my hips which translates to my legs. Basically, my right thigh/calf muscles are literally much bigger than the right. Also, my glutes are really weak and have different weaknesses in the inner thigh, hammy, and glute depending on the side of the body. So we are working to balance the hips and strengthen the areas in need. I'm fully committing to this (a series of core type exercises) so we'll see how it goes. I'm kind of excited as I have a feeling this is going to dramatically impact my running (and hopefully reduce my constant injury vulnerability). My heel played up a bit yesterday but is totally good today. We are keeping an eye on it (hopefully this other work will allow the heel to resolve).


Also, the quarter mile speeds were minus the hurdles. But, as a former sprinter, running those strides yesterday made me literally feel 18 again (if only for a brief moment in time!). Speed may kill in our current running lives, but man is it fun

06/06/2013 at 19:16

Too much data in here...sorry Mace, killer Sub-LT for you as well!!

06/06/2013 at 19:52

Some great running going on here.


Just noticed you got 3:25 Chick.     What maxHR do you start your marathons at?  80%?  (or anyone else)

07/06/2013 at 07:32

Teknik that's INSPIRING! Thanks

Yesterday I did a conference call during my 9 mile plod. I was running so slow that I was able to talk plenty during the call and no one knew i was running. It was a proper lol moment!

07/06/2013 at 07:57

spen, my tried and tested method for marathons is start at 83%, progress to 85% by 6M, aiming to hit 87% at h/way. Ensure you don't hit 90% till your inside the last 10k.

Will be interesting to see how I go this lunchtime, I have a raging hangover

07/06/2013 at 08:30

Im sure you answered this before Brian, thanks again!!!!

The reason why I asked is because after a few ultras this year I am doing the Marine Corp Marathon.   I think 3:30 Is a big possibility maybe quicker,

I would not want to run with the HM on so would run at the corresponding pace and try to even pace it.

07/06/2013 at 09:50

Teknik - thanks very much for letting us know where you started.  Everyone seems so super speedy on here I imagined that you all started out running 8min miles anyway!  That makes me feel almost optimistic that I won't be forever stuck in the 10min mile category, where I've been since I started running!!  My fastest marathon is over 4 and a half hours and that was my first one  I'd love to try again someday and be able to aim for 4.15 - still a modest target!

10miles in glorious sunshine this morning with a 10.10 average at 143bpm.  V. pleased

07/06/2013 at 10:00

Rubbishrunner - i did a 4:05:54 and i think your aerobic fitness blows mine out of the water. Aerobically speaking i bet you have way better than a 4hr marathon in you right now!

07/06/2013 at 11:50

Khanivore, thanks but I still think you're underselling yourself due to a lack of proper max HR!!

I seem to have a big problem with endurance so I'm working on that by doing a lot of long runs at weekends.  I still haven't managed a sub 2h half!  I'm not sure whether trying again in Glasgow in October would be feasible or too soon.  Don't know if you saw my thread from last year but I was pretty despondent afterwards.  It's sort of my secret mission but not so secret now that I've declared it here 

07/06/2013 at 11:55

Rubbish you sound determined. I'm sure you will make it! I could not run more than 2 or 3 minutes in May '12. If I can do it anyone can!

07/06/2013 at 12:45

sheesh - I can't keep up with you lot

spen71 wrote (see)

Just noticed you got 3:25 Chick.     What maxHR do you start your marathons at?  80%?  (or anyone else)

I have no idea spen, as I never raced a mara with HM. Something to do with bits of my *ahem* anatomy getting in the way . It's easier for the boys ...

VTrunner wrote (see)

Well, everyone is either on the comeback trail or firmly ripping the trail up! Well done, everyone. BeDe, way to take the first step back. And aweseome sub-LT runs Chick, Brian, and Tek! Tek, those are most definitely miles in the bank. I think the ones we struggle with (but manage to gut through to the end) are the best for fitness gains (to be delivered in the not too distant future) and for the end of the marathon itself.

Chick, that is a pretty incredible progression. Before you started training for a marthathon, did you do much running? Everything I read mentions how it takes literally years to fully train ourselves for our maximum aerobic fitness. I think your progression shows that (and suggests the best it yet to come). Same with you Mace...I'm so impressed with that 3:15 for your first race. I think the message is that all of us can use this type of training to really see our potential.

Mace blew us all away with that mahoosive debut . I had no running experience worth mentioning. I used to hit the treadie in the gym and sometimes plod outside but never ran to pace or HR or anything. I reckon I was reasonably fit from that gym work when I started 'proper' running in 2008. I kept no log for the first marathon but from memory I ran 11/11:30 mm in training most times.
Good to know what's wrong with your body. I'm guilty of being really lazy when it comes to strength exercises. I know they are good for me but man, if I can get away without being injured I'd much rather not do them. I have been good this week though and done a proper core sesh and some strength stuff too

Khanivore wrote (see)

Teknik that's INSPIRING! Thanks

Yesterday I did a conference call during my 9 mile plod. I was running so slow that I was able to talk plenty during the call and no one knew i was running. It was a proper lol moment!

LOL, that made me chuckle!

6 easy miles run and 16 slow miles biked into work. It's beatiful and sunny out there. Too nice to sit in the car and better for the planet

Edited: 07/06/2013 at 12:46
07/06/2013 at 15:11

Nice running peeps

I had a bit of fun this morning - was supposed to be just a short recovery run, but I tried out the Hadd 200/200 instead.  As I wasn't on a track, it involved a lot of Garmin watching.  I didn't do the full 10k - in fact less than half - and ran the intervals near 5k pace, recoveries at 140% of that pace (matching Joe's ratio).  The fast one's peaked at 78%, and the HR recovered with each slow one.  Overall average pace was close to MP (which is why I guess the full 10k 200/200 is a replacement for one of the subLTs).

07/06/2013 at 15:57

After all the advice I received I felt it best to be open about my plans. I've done a couple of weeks of running 13:30-14:30 min/mile to keep my hr at what i thought was 71%. I'm used to the speed but i'm not sure it's for me. I'm going to spend a couple of months running at 10:30-11:00, building up my weekly mileage until i have been running 50+ miles per week for a couple of months. Once I've done that I will do the max hr test again and start over on the 70% hr training, which by the way I am a believer in.

07/06/2013 at 16:04

Finally khan.   Run at 11,  day after day after day.    You will be able to get the miles up

07/06/2013 at 16:25

sounds like a plan Kani, back in January/Febuary for 75% MHR my pace was around 11:30 - 12mm for the same HR I'm closer to 10:30mm, pretty much running all my easy runs at 10:xx - 11:xx depending on the terrain and elevation, and your current times in races are better than mine

07/06/2013 at 16:39

If HR isn't helping, then you can use pace-based estimation to get into the same region. Khani's HMP is around 8 min/mile ... which equates to 5KP of about 7:15/m ... so 10:15/m is as slow as is necessary. 13:30-14:30 min/mile is insane for a 1:45 HM runner.  Based on HMP, sub-LT pace should be around 8:30-8:40/m. Given the base that's already there from VLM training, I'd suggest incorporating sub-LT sessions sooner rather than  later ... that's where the aerobic improvements really come from (and they're fun too).

07/06/2013 at 17:41

Dan - you come with a set of horns and a pitchfork! I want to do those sub-LT runs but I think I had better get comfy with the distance first.

Thanks Spen, Stew and Dan. I thought I was going to get booted off the thread after my last post I just returned from an 8 mile run. My average pace was 10:20/mile and my averate heart rate was 156bpm. I talked to myself (!) now and then to ensure i could utter a sentance without gasping and all was well.

07/06/2013 at 20:09

Khanivore wrote (see)

 I'm going to spend a couple of months running at 10:30-11:00, building up my weekly mileage until i have been running 50+ miles per week for a couple of months.

Just a word of caution about the 50+ mpw from Hadd ... "joe" was an elite level runner ... and Hadd had little experience of "normal folk". He trained fast runners. His slowest runner was a lady who was a 3:30 marathoner. He said...

"Probably the slowest runner I advise is a female who runs 22:00/5k, 45:00/10k and 3:30 marathon.  Her easy runs are about  9.00-9.15 (140-145 HR).  Unless you are PR's are like hers, I would not expect  you to be running 9.15+ mins/mile.  Or anything like it."

"No more 11- or 10-min miles.  I wouldn't inflict those on my worst enemy.  Not  even 9-min miles (unless you are like Natalia, above, the 3.30 marathoner)."

Keep in mind that the 50 mpw "basline" is in the context of very good runners like "joe" ... for me (a 46-year-old, 40 min 10Ker), 50 mpw is up where I can run when everything is rosy ... 60 mpw is as good as it gets) I'm happy to start sub-LTing at a lower mileage. Watch this space!



Edited: 07/06/2013 at 22:03
07/06/2013 at 22:33

Got some stats for you.  Done 12 miles down the canal path tonight.   Quite warm still so maybe Heart rate is a little higher.  My max heart rate is 190 so all around the 82%,   Next target is to get that even paced at 7:30.


MILE               SPLIT                 AV HR                   

1                        7.33                   148

2                        7.31                    152

3                        7.29                    155

4                        7.35                    156

5                        7.38                    155

6                        7.42                    156

7                        7.43                    156

8                        7.38                    159

9                       7.43                     156

10                      7.37                    156

11                      7.41                    157

12                      7.37                    156

08/06/2013 at 09:49

Nice ILTHR run Spen

Edited: 08/06/2013 at 10:01
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