The heat finally hit out here last weekend and agree, it slows down all the runs at a given HR. As Spen says, slower time still equals the same effort (and miles) in the bank. And just think how nice we'll feel in the fall on (a cool) race day!
I've struggled a bit this week. Ran a 5 m recovery Monday (felt tired), ran 9.5 m yesterday with 7x100m striders (fun fun fun to run fast...did the 100s on the track) but bagged it 3 short of the 10 striders I was billed to do (just felt tired the whole run and wasn't recovering enough between the last few sprints), then today did 14 (deliberately kept the pace controlled with Ave HR 71% at 8:23 m/m) and this felt much better but the last two miles I kind of wilted a bit. So all in all, my HR and times are similar, but my energy level is not. I think it's a combo of lack of sleep, not eating well (or right after the key workouts), and just a lot of volume the past few months. Will see if I can address the food/sleeping and keep the runs a bit lower intensity for there rest of the week...still have 5, 11, rest, and 18 left this week.
Tek, yes, I do think I'm an FT all the way. But strangely, the P&D plan really seems to be a modified HADD document for phase I (maybe not as much deliberate sub-LT stuff, but definitely prescribing mostly aerobic runs (the MLRs, Aerobic runs, Long Runs, and recovery runs)).
VT, I suggest you go rest, 5, rest. And start again next week. Don't be a slave to the schedule. Sounds like you need a rest to me.
Tek, always think it's a good sign when it takes a while to hit your goal hr. Nice one on getting it done. Like as already been said, main thing is the effort level when the weather is not conducive to faster pace.
Andi, hope you enjoyed a wee dram last night. Congrats again on the pb.
Well so much for the warm weather. The forecast for the weekend up here in West Yorkshire is cool and showery. Opened my father day pressie last night. Only seemed right and proper that I shared it with my lad (who'd bought it). Had a couple of Jack Daniels with honey, with lots of ice and coke. Seemed appropriate as I watched England qualify for the ICC Final.
Brian - 'Rusty Nail' does it for me (Whisky & Drambuie) - hic - sorry Andi, that probably sounds like sacrilege to a scot!
Nice one Brian. Luckily my kids don't like bottles of real ale, so I got to drink all my Father's Day pressies. Nice sub-LT pace, especially in this heat. My best pace at 83% subLT has been around 7:15/m after a few months of Hadding ... seems a way off at the moment though.
Likewise, nice sub-LTing from Chick and Tek ... not the ideal weather for those sessions but all good stuff so far as the legs are concerned.
VT ... take care ... that's a hefty schedule remaining this week and it sounds like you're getting tired. Brian's advice seems sensible.
Andi ... dram definitely warranted!
Yesterday was ... bike to work ... planned to run at lunchtime but didn't get a window ... so biked back home later and went straight out for 4 miles at 70%. Hot, hilly and on tired bike legs, it was worth more than it said on the tin. Similar work issues today and not sure when I can run ... might run 4M-ish down to the track in south Leeds late afternoon to catch my boy racing 800m, then run back to work (4M-ish), and cycle home (5M).
Interesting conversation going on with the fetchies about the LSRs. I believe these should be done below 70% but they are quoting HADD and running at 75%.
What does everyone think?
my son gave me a bottle of JD with honey as well, not opened yet. Going to watch the Tour de France in Normandy in 2 weeks time, will have a few then waiting for them to pass by. Look out for a large Welsh flag at the start of the time trial from Avranches to Le Mont St Michel, I will be on the other end ! pissed most likely!
with this heat I am finding letting the HR fluctuate between the both (70- 75% helps to keep the run at a fluid pace.
But in the cooler days I find it much easier to control the HR at a set level, that's just my observations!!
Spen it is interesting, as it is a mix of a number of issues...
(1) Pure Hadd, per the document - the lowest HR that Hadd got Joe to run was 140 (72.5%), on a few short recoveries, and the lowest he quoted for a long run was 145 (75%)
(2) Average versus Ceiling. This is not in the doc, and I guess that's because Joe was already a fit runner and didn't experience much drift. If I set out on a LSR at 75%, I'm going to be drifting above that after about 8 miles. So, like you, I'm a fan of trying to keep it under 70%, or lower, for as long as possible, until I give in and let myself drift to 75% (but no higher...i.e. slow down)
(3) Some of the Fetch guys are really hard-core....if I ran 50+ miles a week at 75%, plus a 10 mile sub-LT, and then did a 20 mile LR also at 75%, I'd be wrecked / injured, immediately.
Nothing wrong with training easy...slow-twitch muscle mitochondrial genesis rules
BeDe, must admit to not having heard of rusty nail. But does sound like a wicked combination (apologies andi). The wife and I are great believers in brandy and port.
Roy, enjoy thetour. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a drunken welshman.
Spen/tek, I've looked back at my log and the long runs involving effort (progressive and hard/easys) come out at ~75%. Whilst the time-on-feet long runs end up closer to 70%. So I can see both sides of the discussion
Brian, thanks for the advice. Perhaps I'll take a few days as you suggest. Before I saw your message I had already done my 5 today. Went out deliberately slow for a true recovery run. Ran 9:16 m/m with ave HR 128 (64%). That is a record low HR for me. Legs were OK (as they should have been for this effort).
Txs for all the comments/tips folks, always much appreciated
Oh, and for the record, if you want to put ice in your finest Malts then it's your call, it's just that you'll be missing out on the subtleties of said Liquor now, a drop of tap water will enhance the flavour (room temp is, of course best).
Tek, great run and nice to see I'm not the only one that keeps an eye on how long it takes to get the HR up to the desired %, maybe next year I'll also be able to report times a bit closer to yours lol.
VT, as suggested, rest sounds a good plan and think I need one after reading about your workouts!
Brian, surely cool and showery is the best weather for HADDing? the same effort would surely produce much faster times? Or is it just the Yorkshireman and need to moan coming out Hope you both enjoyed your Drams?
No worries BeDe, as above, each to their own and not a Scot, just chose to Live up here A less interesting drink when I have a cold is hot lemonade but seems to help things though diffucult to see when it gets to the boil in the pan
Dr Dan, am sure those 7.15/m miles will be back again soon with your training how did your boy do in his race?
Spen, Tek, am always asking the same question re %'s but now settled on (trying) to run @70-72% and let it slide up a bit on hills whilst still slowing and recovering on downhills to keep the average below 70% - it seems to be working for me at the moment so shall stick with it a while longer.
Brian, I must admit that when I get a cold I look forward to going out and buying 1/4 bot of brandy and a half bot of Port - 1 glass - I find it a kill or cure remedy and always manage to sleep well afterwards
Quick question folks, still 14 weeks to my marathon and have the Mull Half in 7 weeks, I plan (nay hope) on running this in 2:20 (Hal H's time if I want a 4:55 Mara). I'm happily plodding around at 70% HRR but should I start to do some 80% runs before the half?
VT, Snap!! I ran what turned out to be recovery yesterday. 8.34 miles in 68:50. I was aiming to stay below 70% and had no problems doing that the way my legs felt. 8:15 pace for HRav 116 (63.1%). This is the lowest I've seen since April.
Andi, I am heavily involved in cricket. I am VP at the local cricket club, I coach the juniors and I watch my son play in the 1st team. So when it comes to the weekend I am begging for some sunshine.
Before I offer an answer to your 80% question, I have a few questions for you: 1. remind me how long you have been hadding? 2. I know you can't run flat where you are but presumably you run similar routes - how has your 70/75% pace improved since starting? 3. Has there been any plateauing of paces? 4. How many runs do you do a week and how much time spent running per week?
Rest day for me today as I have a funeral to attend. Will do 2.25 hrs on saturday morning and hope to sneak a shortish run in on Sunday afternoon.
Hadd does say 70% maxHR in places outside his "document".
"In time it's possible for you to run a marathon averaging 168-170 HR the whole way (based on your 191 HRmax).Right now you know you cannot hold that effort for that long, but it'll come with training.Your easy running should be ~70% HRmax. So for you that means low-130s HR (say 130-135). Right now, that probably feels like walking and you don't want to go "that slow", but I would suggest you work down to it over time. Right now you can keep your HR under 145 for a long run, once you find this easy to do (ie: the pace doesn't feel maddeningly slow) try keeping the HR under 140 for long stretches (although you can let it climb on uphills, but once on the flat again at the top, once again bring the HR under control).Two days per week do this:Tue: a session at 150-155 HR (~80% HRmax)Fri: a session at 155-160 HR (~85% HRmax)The Tues session can start at 2 x 15 mins (as you are doing) and slowly build up along these lines as you get more and more comfortable at that effort:2 x 15 mins, 2 x 20 mins, 3 x 15 mins, 1 x 30 mins, 30 mins + 15 mins, 1 x 40 mins, 35 mins + 15 mins, 1 x 45 mins...There is no need to take every step I give above, but slowly try and increase the amount of time you can run at 150-155. Take a relaxed 3-5 mins jog break in between each long rep.The Fri session you can begin shorter;2 x 8-10 mins with 3-5 mins jog break. Then build to 2 x 12 mins, 2 x 15 mins, etc. Don't be in a hurry to build, let the physical adaptations happen in your muscles and it will get easier and easier as the weeks go by.You should find that as well as you gaining the ability to go longer and longer at this effort level, that the pace at these HRs improves over the weeks. But don't get too anal about whether each session is faster than the week before, just get the work in. Improvement is not linear.Give it 6 weeks at these effort levels (increasing the length of the reps over the six-week period), and then post up again.Do a 10 min jog warm up before each session. Some simple stretches and 3 x 100m strides with 60 secs jog break) and then begin."
Andi ... I think 80% maxHR training is very useful for a HM but whether it's a good idea for you depends on other factors as alluded to by Brian's questions.
Yesterday's plan panned out ... after cycling to work (5M)... and working ... I left at 4pm and ran to South Leeds Stadium (3.7M), watched the boy smash his 800m PB by 5s (now 02:27), ran back to work (3.7M) and then cycled home (5M). Running was a bit faster than my usual easy pace but came out at bang on 75% maxHR and bang on 9/m.
Wow DrDan! Sonny jim is doing you proud.That's a great session at this stage in your comeback. Keep up the good work!
DD thanks for that link - it certainly clears up where the 70%max came from. I don't feel so Hadd-lite now. Nice run and well done to your son
Txs Brian & Dr Dan,
1. remind me how long you have been hadding?Started in February this Year
2. I know you can't run flat where you are but presumably you run similar routes - how has your 70/75% pace improved since starting?I tend to run 4 main routes. Looking back on times/distances things have only just started to improve though saw a steady improvement on general fitness and where I used to take walk breaks (and even stop sometimes) to get my HR down I now find I can run most routes bar the longer steeper hills. Last 4 10k 'PB's in Training' are...
17/11/2012 72:08 74% HRR02/04/2013 67:13 73% HRR01/06/2013 65:56 74% HRR19/06/2013 63:17 68% HRR
3. Has there been any plateauing of paces?I think things are starting to 'work' at 70% and times seems to be improving now.
4. How many runs do you do a week and how much time spent running per week?This has been up and down and anywhere from 2-3 to 5-6 a week but now knuckling down and aiming to keep it around 5-6 a week and 30 miles plus (last week was my first ever 30 mile week! Am currently running for 5-6 hours a week.
Below are my monthly totals since I started running in June '12. June this Year includes a 14 mile run that became a 6 mile run and 8 mile walk @ 14:02 and removing that would see a monthly average pace of 11:17.
Andi - good progress but I would say that you would be best just building the weekly mileage up slowly (sticking to 70% maxHR). Apart from June, you've been averaging less that 20 mpw which is way too low for obtaining a strong aerobic base and too low for HM training. You generally should not increase mileage and intensity at the same time ... so I'd suggest that you build up to your target mileage, stay there for a few weeks, and then consider turning one run into a sub-LT session.
Teknic being Hadd-lite? The very thought of it!! In fact it's the 70% runners who are the true aerobic monsters!
Brian ... the boy who won yesterday's 800m finished in 2:05 . Not bad for a U15 (he may even be U14).
70% is the way forward (for the time being as my legs get used to 80 miles a week)
When is this marathon of yours Andi? You need to get a lot of mile in for one,.
70% is for whimps .... sub-70 is where it's at!
Today was 69.1% at a recovery 9:49/m. Now I need to cycle home. Should end up with 35M this week plus 60+ on the bike (assuming the weekend goes to plan).
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