HADD training plan

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02/12/2011 at 15:08
Curt, After 6 weeks, and feeling comfortable with the current regime, you can then move 2 of the runs up to ~80% (Joe's 160). If you read the document these start of as straight 75min runs.
02/12/2011 at 15:12
Sneglen, Stick at it! Incidentally what are the HR figures you are using, and how did you arrive at them?
02/12/2011 at 15:21
Cheers Brian I will continue until Xmas then introduce the 2 160HR runs and a long run on Sundays ,
02/12/2011 at 15:35

curt - great progress.  I'll start doing 2 ILTHR runs a week once I get to 10 miles @ 70%MHR with no cardiac drift

sneglen - well done, be patient

02/12/2011 at 15:48

Oh yes, cardiac drift.  I should probably set up my Garmin to take mile splits so that I can keep an eye on this as the runs get longer.

Muscles are funny things aren't they.  There's me thinking that all the cycling will make my quads proportionally stronger, yet that's precisely where the DOMS has struck following yesterday's return to running.  (But in a pleasantly achy, must-be-doing-me-good sort of way.)  I guess they're put under different stress when running though.  Big long bike ride tomorrow, next run Sunday.

[edit] ...today being a "rest day" - just the 8 miles walking round trip to work and back! 

Edited: 02/12/2011 at 15:50
02/12/2011 at 17:10
Brian Max heart rate taken as 190 off a 5K earlier in the year so working at a rate of 142. I think when I used to run it was probably at an average of about 155/158 hence I now appear to be doing little more than a walk. Have also not run for 11 weeeks and very sparodically since April, and I am not a fast runner anyway.

I shall continue to be patient. I'm just so enjoying being out there again.

02/12/2011 at 21:31
Ok Sneglen, thats great. Keep us informed, cos it seems that you have the biggest scope for improvement. No pressure!
07/12/2011 at 17:28
OK folks, 7 days into the HADD plan and thought you might like an update... 

Having absolutely no problems with distance - clocked just under 30m for the week on the back of 5 runs of 45, 75, 50, 100(LSR) and 50 minutes respectively.  Pace no problems either - feels much more comfortable even after a week.  Indeed, on day 1 of week 2, I have just completed an excellent 60 minutes in glorious Naples sunshine at an average of 135bpm covering just shy of 6 miles: at something like 10:30mins/mi, that is 2 min/mi faster than last week.  I do not believe this is simply down to a hike in fitness over the course of the week - rather, I suspect it is down to two things: First, having gone back and read the original HADD thread at http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=42240&page=0 I have decided not to become a slave to my HRM (it is a right royal pain checking it every 20 seconds...) and have settled at a pace 5bpm faster than my 'calculated' 70% pace which I find more productive without inducing more stress (I'm working on the yardstick from the original thread that the top end of low aerobic pace is where you have to open your mouth to breath, whilst the low end of the lactate zone begins when you can hear your breathing...), effectively I am checking my HRM only when my body tells me I ought to.  Secondly, I reckon I have become more mechanically efficient at the lower pace - I certainly spent a great deal of time on the first few runs adjusting my cadence and stride length trying to get into a steady efficient rythm. 

Oh, and by the way, the 1hr 40min LSR on Sunday was really good... though I forgot to charge my iPod the night before and had to spend the whole time mentally twiddling my thumbs!  (Won't make that mistake again.)  I settled on 100 mins as opposed to 90 because it fits a nice circuit from home which takes in the local lake.  I plan to do that every week for the first 6 weeks, as per Brian's advice.  Thereafter, I plan to run the LSR mileages given in the 'Higdon Intermediate II' Plan (courtesy of PhilPub) as I also up the ante slightly by incorporating Brian's two 80% runs into my weekly mileage. 

The bottom line is that thanks to some great advice from fellow 'HADDers', I am really enjoying my running and find myself looking forward to it as soon as the alarm goes off (how sad is that)!

Ciao Raggazzi!

07/12/2011 at 17:34
L33 - Great update - good to hear you are enjoying things - keep on going...!!
08/12/2011 at 09:04

Laureate, nice weekly report. Glad your enjoying the sunshine, I'm not envious at all

I (and a few others too) found that the Hadd stuff is really novel at first, and does tend to bring back any enthusiasm about getting out. I think the attraction is the relaxed, easy paced almost therapeutic atmosphere of the 70% zone. Also, just running for time and hr, rather than the relentless toil for miles and pace, is rather refreshing. Enjoy the first 6 weeks. 

On a personal note, I had to rollover to the side to get out of bed this morning. My lower abs are "traumatised" (as are my shoulders). Following my 4th week, and 7th and 8th gym session, I am wrecked! Hope all this core work is worth it!!!!!

08/12/2011 at 09:55

Laureate - nice report, nice plan!  I'm four runs away from a sunny climate run myself - will definitely be taking my running shoes to Lanzarote for the "work Christmas do" (long weekend) on Friday week! 

Brian - much like the running I suppose... keep with the core work, it'll be worth it.  My core strength is better than ever at the moment, without doubt.  I've just resumed squats and lunges in the gym this week too, which was one of the last things my surgeon told be to be cautious about w.r.t. the hip, but all seems OK on that front at the moment.

Just the two runs for me so far, 5 and 7 miles @ 67 - 68% max HR, so all very pleasant and easy, but happy to see pace around 8m/m (average 8:05 over the two runs) so the aerobic engine is ticking over nicely.  I'm now settling into a schedule of runs in addition to the gym/cycling routine, 3x/wk building to 5x/wk over the next few weeks, so by mid January I should be back up to the target area of ~50mpw before I start adding some faster pace running.

Edited: 08/12/2011 at 09:56
08/12/2011 at 10:30

Brian - For me, you just hit the nail on the head, I'm finding the running very therapeutic. Having some really enjoyable runs, with the odd one where the HR readings are all over the place. I'm assuming the contacts are drying out and may end up trying some conductive gel if it keeps happening. On those runs, I just look at the graphs and guesstimate the average. Certainly not getting hung up over them, I don't feel like I'm working too hard when I'm out.

08/12/2011 at 10:56

Phil, Sounds like a plan. Go easy with the squats and lunges.

SRM, Yep side-effect of not working hard enough Don't tell yer mates about the gel either

08/12/2011 at 11:56

SLM - I think you are right about the wafty H/R readings, I have been experiencing the same of late.

I think it's due to running at only 70% Max H/R and the colder weather and not generating enough sweat to keep good contact.

Still can't bring myself to get the KY Jelly out though...!! 

08/12/2011 at 12:35
waht is hadds?
08/12/2011 at 14:32

Distance running training using Heart Rate - http://www.electricblues.com/html/Hadd.doc

08/12/2011 at 19:39

Another lurker sticks their h(e)add up...  I've read through the whole thread and thought it would help motivate me if I came out, so here goes.
My reason for Hadding is similar to Joes, but obviously  I'm a lot slower. I got all my PB's in 2007 at age 39, HM 1:18, FM 2:48. 5k 16:53. After a disastrous Edinburgh Marathon in 2008, I completely lost motivation and have hardly run since. I've tried starting again many times, but get to about 25-30 mpw before overdoing it, getting minor injuries, getting depressed and eating/drinking too much before repeating thecycle. I've also put on 1.5 stone in the last 4 years and am now 13st. I know my problem is that I train too hard and keep looking back to previous training regimes where I could run 7:00mm miles easily and think I can do the same again. But knowing the problem is very different from actually fixing it.

Which brings me to Hadd. I have 2 targets for next year - get VLM GFA time 3:15 at North Dorset Village Marathon and just get round Dartmoor Discovery. I may also do a couple of HM's, but without any targets in mind. I also do a Parkrun every month or so - not sure how that fits in with the regime.

In the last 6 weeks I have been running approx 25-30mpw, mainly at 7:45 pace. i.e too quick especially since all the runs have been hilly. I havent yet measured my MHR (will do on Sat) so am assuming it is approx 178. This week I have started doing Hadd runs. I have done 1x90min (10 miles at 8:57) and 1x45min (5miles at 8:47), both at 131bpm, approx 75%.

I have found doing the Hadds a revelation so far. It's a huge weight off my shoulder not to look at pace all the time. Previously, whatever I told myself at the start of a run, I would always end up thinking 'if I can do 1 mile at x:xx speed, I can get my average down from 8:xx to 7:xx' and I would always end up going too quick.

What I have done is wear my Garmin on the other arm to normal and a seperate HRM on my normal arm. On the Garmin I only display average time and distance, not splits. So I naturally only look at the HRM and just use the Garmin to measure distance and for info at the end of the run. On an uphill Hadd mile I have been doing 9:40mm to maintain HR - there's no way I would have done that if I was using the Garmin.

I'm not sure what the best plan is now. My marathon is in 21 weeks. I need to get to ~50mpw before starting proper Hadd base training, which I hope I can do by end Dec/mid Jan since running at 75% doesn't seem to take much out of me. That leaves 16 or 17 weeks to properly train. I'm not sure whether to do 8 weeks Hadd base traing and then 8 weeks more intense stuff, or do more (or only) Hadd base training. The Dartmoor Discovery is very hilly so I will have to do hills at some point (I live on the edge of Dartmoor so finding hills not a problem!)

One question I have is, what does Hadd do after base training? In the past I have roughly followed P+D, would it be recommended to do this sort of training after a period of Hadd base training? Or should more intense training still be HR based?

 Anyway, I'm hoping that I can stick with it and contribute to the thread

08/12/2011 at 20:11
I can't answer the previous question, except to say that you can use P&D, but go by HR- their long run pace is a74-84%, recovery < 76%, general aerobic 70-81% (of max hr), so all within the reasonaable  "up to 80%" part of the later HADD stuff- not so sure about the lactate threashold and VO2max runs though- might miss them out until just a few weeeks pre-race. This is roughly what I'm planning.....but I know nothing.
08/12/2011 at 20:46
A stupid question maybe. If the majority of running to start with is 75%, does that mean 75% of maximum or of working heart rate?
08/12/2011 at 23:38
Hi Everyone, been busy so not looked at this thread for about a week ! Done a could of long hadd runs , 90 mims and 110 mins. . So love the feeling that I could keep going with ease at the end of the run !

Got the Bedford half Sunday, will aim to take it easy 1st half and do a quicker 2nd half . Will wear my HRM and report back .

Good to see a few new faces giving it a go. Stick with it, I have only done it for 2 weeks but I feel good for slowing my pace down.

Have a good weekend.

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