VT, Snap!! I ran what turned out to be recovery yesterday. 8.34 miles in 68:50. I was aiming to stay below 70% and had no problems doing that the way my legs felt. 8:15 pace for HRav 116 (63.1%). This is the lowest I've seen since April.
Andi, I am heavily involved in cricket. I am VP at the local cricket club, I coach the juniors and I watch my son play in the 1st team. So when it comes to the weekend I am begging for some sunshine.
Before I offer an answer to your 80% question, I have a few questions for you: 1. remind me how long you have been hadding? 2. I know you can't run flat where you are but presumably you run similar routes - how has your 70/75% pace improved since starting? 3. Has there been any plateauing of paces? 4. How many runs do you do a week and how much time spent running per week?
Rest day for me today as I have a funeral to attend. Will do 2.25 hrs on saturday morning and hope to sneak a shortish run in on Sunday afternoon.
Hadd does say 70% maxHR in places outside his "document".
"In time it's possible for you to run a marathon averaging 168-170 HR the whole way (based on your 191 HRmax).Right now you know you cannot hold that effort for that long, but it'll come with training.Your easy running should be ~70% HRmax. So for you that means low-130s HR (say 130-135). Right now, that probably feels like walking and you don't want to go "that slow", but I would suggest you work down to it over time. Right now you can keep your HR under 145 for a long run, once you find this easy to do (ie: the pace doesn't feel maddeningly slow) try keeping the HR under 140 for long stretches (although you can let it climb on uphills, but once on the flat again at the top, once again bring the HR under control).Two days per week do this:Tue: a session at 150-155 HR (~80% HRmax)Fri: a session at 155-160 HR (~85% HRmax)The Tues session can start at 2 x 15 mins (as you are doing) and slowly build up along these lines as you get more and more comfortable at that effort:2 x 15 mins, 2 x 20 mins, 3 x 15 mins, 1 x 30 mins, 30 mins + 15 mins, 1 x 40 mins, 35 mins + 15 mins, 1 x 45 mins...There is no need to take every step I give above, but slowly try and increase the amount of time you can run at 150-155. Take a relaxed 3-5 mins jog break in between each long rep.The Fri session you can begin shorter;2 x 8-10 mins with 3-5 mins jog break. Then build to 2 x 12 mins, 2 x 15 mins, etc. Don't be in a hurry to build, let the physical adaptations happen in your muscles and it will get easier and easier as the weeks go by.You should find that as well as you gaining the ability to go longer and longer at this effort level, that the pace at these HRs improves over the weeks. But don't get too anal about whether each session is faster than the week before, just get the work in. Improvement is not linear.Give it 6 weeks at these effort levels (increasing the length of the reps over the six-week period), and then post up again.Do a 10 min jog warm up before each session. Some simple stretches and 3 x 100m strides with 60 secs jog break) and then begin."
Andi ... I think 80% maxHR training is very useful for a HM but whether it's a good idea for you depends on other factors as alluded to by Brian's questions.
Yesterday's plan panned out ... after cycling to work (5M)... and working ... I left at 4pm and ran to South Leeds Stadium (3.7M), watched the boy smash his 800m PB by 5s (now 02:27), ran back to work (3.7M) and then cycled home (5M). Running was a bit faster than my usual easy pace but came out at bang on 75% maxHR and bang on 9/m.
Wow DrDan! Sonny jim is doing you proud.That's a great session at this stage in your comeback. Keep up the good work!
DD thanks for that link - it certainly clears up where the 70%max came from. I don't feel so Hadd-lite now. Nice run and well done to your son
Txs Brian & Dr Dan,
1. remind me how long you have been hadding?Started in February this Year
2. I know you can't run flat where you are but presumably you run similar routes - how has your 70/75% pace improved since starting?I tend to run 4 main routes. Looking back on times/distances things have only just started to improve though saw a steady improvement on general fitness and where I used to take walk breaks (and even stop sometimes) to get my HR down I now find I can run most routes bar the longer steeper hills. Last 4 10k 'PB's in Training' are...
17/11/2012 72:08 74% HRR02/04/2013 67:13 73% HRR01/06/2013 65:56 74% HRR19/06/2013 63:17 68% HRR
3. Has there been any plateauing of paces?I think things are starting to 'work' at 70% and times seems to be improving now.
4. How many runs do you do a week and how much time spent running per week?This has been up and down and anywhere from 2-3 to 5-6 a week but now knuckling down and aiming to keep it around 5-6 a week and 30 miles plus (last week was my first ever 30 mile week! Am currently running for 5-6 hours a week.
Below are my monthly totals since I started running in June '12. June this Year includes a 14 mile run that became a 6 mile run and 8 mile walk @ 14:02 and removing that would see a monthly average pace of 11:17.
Andi - good progress but I would say that you would be best just building the weekly mileage up slowly (sticking to 70% maxHR). Apart from June, you've been averaging less that 20 mpw which is way too low for obtaining a strong aerobic base and too low for HM training. You generally should not increase mileage and intensity at the same time ... so I'd suggest that you build up to your target mileage, stay there for a few weeks, and then consider turning one run into a sub-LT session.
Teknic being Hadd-lite? The very thought of it!! In fact it's the 70% runners who are the true aerobic monsters!
Brian ... the boy who won yesterday's 800m finished in 2:05 . Not bad for a U15 (he may even be U14).
70% is the way forward (for the time being as my legs get used to 80 miles a week)
When is this marathon of yours Andi? You need to get a lot of mile in for one,.
70% is for whimps .... sub-70 is where it's at!
Today was 69.1% at a recovery 9:49/m. Now I need to cycle home. Should end up with 35M this week plus 60+ on the bike (assuming the weekend goes to plan).
Txs guys and yes, kinda new the answer before asking the question
I'm trying hard to build miles miles up and understand that should be #1 priority as the times seem to be falling naturaly. Spen, the Marathon is 29th September and the Half is 13th August but not doing any specific training for that. 80 miles/week spen? am impressed!
Went out for 8 miles today and let the HRR % go too high on some of the hills and even had to take 2 walk breaks on a new 3/4 mile hill (and never made it to the bottom of it). 10:52/mile and 72%HRR.
DrDan, thats some junior. Need to get him out on to the canal for the 5M handicap.
Give us someone to chase.
Andi, think you have your answer.
Brian, yes, it would seem so and guess you concur? I currently have my Garmin vibrate when I go over 72% so might even go back to walking rather than let it drift up a bit if I'm on a hill.
Brian, well done. Great minds think alike! So today I woke up feeling pretty good and decided to do the 11 miler. Was a good call as I felt very strong today. My HR didn't climb despite running full sun/heat. Finished feeling fresh. I think I found my problem...ineffective fueling. Tomorrow off and long run Sunday.
Dr. Dan, nice comeback. 35 miles is a very respectable week (not to mention all the biking). I think you'll be back in the fitness zone fast too...those times vs effort are really good considering the layoff. Awesome for you.
I'm still trying to figure out the optimal efforts for the medium long runs, the aerobic runs, and the long runs. I was doing all of these averaging about 73-75% the past few weeks but perhaps that was too much. Will keep tinkering.
Andi, your 70% pace is making huge strides, and of course this is to be expected if you stick to the lower intensities. I've given you a lot of thought lately and I do concur that 80% is not ideal for you at the moment. I would suggest that you stick to the lower intensities until the improvement slows, and then rethink.
But I would suggest that you allow 1 run per week to go up to 75%. Not the long run though - I would suggest 70mins initially and build it up to 90mins. Your making excellent progress, keep up the good work.
What Brian says is correct. As you are running at low intensities you can increased your mileage may be 3 miles extra for a couple of weeks then a weeks pause.
Txs Brian and spen shall follow your advice as things are coming together since I joined this thread so you must be helping me And I must thank you all and find it inspiring that (much) faster runners than me take the time to advise and suggest ways for me to improve - much appreciated!
Sadly my LSR hasn't happened today. Probably too much information but lets say I need to stay within a few paces of the bathroom
Andi, hope the guts are behaving themselves today.
Ran to the cricket yesterday. Got just short of 9 in at 69%. U15 game this morning has been called off. So going out for a couple of hours. Going for a meal with mrs b this evening to celebrate 29 years of marriage. Hope everyone gets in their long runs.
Congratulations Brian good endurance marriage wise, shows what a man can do if he sticks with it still 4 years behind me tho
No run today after parkrun and 5 mile fell race yesterday, really enjoying running at the moment, hope you all feel the same as me about your training Haddtasktic.
DD nice weekly build-up, recovery is going well
Spen impressive weekly total you're banging out !
Andi hope you're feeling a little better this morning
Brian congratulations to you and Mrs B
VT I find 73-75% is fine so long as I'm strict on keeping sub70% for recoveries. For long runs I start off at 70% in order to avoid drifting over 75% by the end...
Roy nice running yesterday, glad you're enjoying the training
RR/BeDe/Chick hope you're all ok.
Long run of 15m for me - av.70%max and 9mm, drifted a couple of % in the last 5 miles, but happy with the run.
Week ended with 64.4m in 9h26, 8:48mm av. and 72%maxHR avg.
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