VT ... GREAT long run! ... things are looking good.
sub ... always risky to train if you're genuinely injured. However, it may be that the 12:30/m runs result in a lot less "pounding".
Andi ... BeDe is correct ...using 70% HRR (heart rate reserve or working heart rate) rather than 70% maxHR results is running too hard in Hadd terms. 70% HRR for me is 136 bpm whereas 70% maxHR is 123 bpm. If I was running at 70% HRR, it would be 78% maxHR which is closer to sub-LT than to easy.
So, having done my LSR on Friday, I only had to slot in a 7 miler to bring up the first 40 mpw since end of March (plus another 41 on the bike). Did it with my son ... he forgot he was going to be running and ate a Mars Bar 20 minutes before, so we had to go pretty slow as he had some gut issues after a few miles. Consequence was a 67% maxHR run. That brought up 133 miles for June, with another 175 miles on the bike.
Good long runs DrDan, VT et al.
Andi, well done on upping the mileage last month. You should be able to consolidate that in july.
Chick, the temptation for me would have been to can the tempo so credit to you for riding bareback.
15miles on Saturday am incl parkrun. Rest (drinking/watching cricket) day yesterday. 64miles for the week. Last week of base coming up. 90min runs planned for mon/wed/fri, 70mins tues/thurs and 2.25hrs sat. Should bag ~70miles.
Work has been mad, so sorry for not reading back properly...
VT awesome long run. In answer to your question (a way back) the subLT's are still not comfortable - despite being 25 secs slower than where I got to in April. I might dial it back to 80% for a while...
Andi hope your dad gets better soon
I ran a hot and hilly 10k yesterday - couldn't even hold on to HM pace, and as the route went past the car park at 3.5m I caved and DNF.
Week's stats : 65.3m in 9h38, 8:51 av. pace @ 70% avg.maxHR. Broke 1500m ytd...
Brian - great mileage! - surely you must be that 'aerobic monster' now!
VT - same for you surely - fantastic stats!! Dr Dan - your foot seems to be on the mend now?
Sub60 - welcome, HADDing should help reduce the risk of injury so think about the long term goal of being able to continue training, not necessarily about pace at this stage (although we all do it - human nature!)
3 weeks left in spine brace - will then start cycling and slowly build up some weekly time, then mix in some gentle short runs and see how I go. Had started cycling previously but was banned by doc!
Dr Dan - you mentioned…"70% on the bike should be very easy .... you'll have a lower HRmax on the bike, so it doesn't equate well with running." I agree about the lower HRmax, I've noticed that before, but isn't 70% still just that - my heart will be working at that rate irrespective of the sport? Any thoughts? - I don't want to be biking for ages, but I might have to for a while.
Andi - sorry, missed the post about your Dad - hope he is on the mend.
Tek (and everyone) - thx for all your good wishes.
BeDe ... it's a bit different on a bike because it's harder to get to max ( as you're sitting and not moving your body-weight off the ground). I have done the CTS field test on a turbo trainer and it came out with an average of 151 bpm on the second 8 min interval ... "tempo" riding would be 88-90% of this, so 133-136 bpm. I think this would be the sub-LT equivalent which, for me, would be 145 bpm maxHR when running. So perhaps something like 10 bpm lower on the bike for the same effort level?
Am having intermittent web access at my parents so not been on for a few days (nor run).
Dad is comfortable thanks but has a bladder infection as well now but it's hoped he can come home Friday.
BeDe, Dr.Dan, the Max HR or HRR was something I'd asked in several places and am sure I asked here as well but never got a definitive reply but yes, what your saying does make sense. Tis about 12 weeks till my marathon now, do people think I should slow things right down again and go back to 70% of MAX HR and maybe do a couple of shorter runs at the equiv of what I had 'thought' was right? Am now worried that all my training has been wasted (even though am sure it wasn't).
About halfway through my day I noticed my achilles is sore and a bit swollen. Damn. Hopefully some icing/rest will remedy. At least this is my recovery week.
Andi, not sure what to tell you. You are pretty far along now so maybe just stick with what you have been doing, especially as you seem to be making nice improvements. Perhaps switch over to maxHR after this race?
Andi - I would agree with VT - whatever you are doing seems working and I didn't mean to upset the apple cart or add any confusion - apologies . I was just looking up the formula as it had been mentioned and noticed the difference when I applied it to my stats. Certainly if I was on a plan I think I'd want to stick with it and then re-evaluate after. Brian might have a take on this?
Dr Dan - CTS test - just looked at it - no thanks!! ha - almost as bad as the 2400m HADD test. Anyway - I don't want to be biking much so I'll just use it to get a little fitness back. I estimate actually starting to run again at the beginning of August (trying to be sensible about this).
Andi ... 12 weeks!! . I assume you are going to be putting in some very long LSRs over the next 8 weeks, so I'd consider trying to get closer to 70% maxHR on those runs. To be honest, I'd have really struggled to run close to 70% maxHR when I first started running.
VT ... take care mate and take a rest if required ... "better to be 10% undertrained than 1% overtrained".
BeDe - I wasn't really suggesting doing the bike test ... only that my conclusion afterwards was that HR/effort comparisons are very different compared with running.
Jeepers, Andi - only 12 weeks. Shock, horror ! Like the others said - if it ain't broke don't fix it. Things have been going really well for you in terms of improvement so stick with it.VT: wot a brilliant run the other day sorry to hear it upset the achilles. Rest up.BeDe: as you were mentioning the 2400m test - is anyone on here doing it? Tried it twice but soon gave up. Too much hassle what with driving to the track and more often than not the weather is shit anyway... at leat that's my excuse Brian: brilliant weekly mileage 8.5 easy miles for me today - av. HR 71%, av. pace 8:27
Andi, I would like to echo what VT and BeDe have said. In the words of a fellow freddite keep on keeping on. There's really no secret to marathoning at our level other than consistency. I can't help with whr as I have absolutely no experience of it. You are on an improvement curve currently, try not to jeopardise that by experimenting at this stage.
Well, I am struggling to consistently keep my pace low enough at the moment, but am still trying!
Just for info, my measures MHR is 186, so 75% (my current aim for consistency) is 140. 70% is 130, but I only seem to be able to get that slow when helping pace my partner as I need to be below 14:00mm to get there.
Last nights run was 7 miles at around 12:00mm for 144 (77%MHR) althogh on the flat parts, which there are not many of, I was comfortably below 140. The hills, always put the rate up, but I have noticed recent weeks that it doesnt go up as much as it used to, so I guess thats a small improvement!
I find it quite hard to keep a comfortable form at this slow speed, but having followed this thread for a while, it seems all beginners at HADD have the same problem? I will keep at it tho, as I really want the aerobic/endurance base built up.
Any suggestions as to how to comfortably keep this very low speed going? Should I really walk if it goes over 75% or just try and slow even more? I guess the fact that I can do the extra slow pace with my partner means its all in my mind why I cant slow down on my own
BeDe only 3 weeks left - great news
RR sounds like a good plan
Spen that's some pace improvement over 6 months
DD nice bunch of running and cycling last week.
Andi hope they let your dad out soon. Only 12 weeks left until mara day!
VT take care of that Achilles. Roller and massage too...
Chick nice pace at 71%. I did a couple of the 2400 tests when I started, but now I just think they are a "hard" day without having much of a point. Better indicators are the subLT pace and average beats per mile, imho.
Brian wise words
Cheesy what's your 5k pb pace?
13.1m for me this morning, mostly sub70% max but a few blips uphill. SubLT run tomorrow...
Stick at it Cheesy .. it's a frustrating phase but it passes.
Andi ... what 's the training schedule looking like over the next 12 weeks? I know everyone is saying to just keep going as you are ... but if you plan some 18 and 20+ runs, these may not be such a good idea at 78-80% maxHR given that you've never been in that territory before. It may be that you should think about sub 75% maxHR for those runs.
Bike commute and sub-LT today. 7.55M total with 6.25M at 82% maxHR which came out as 7:32/m. 1 mile longer than last weeks' first sub-LT session ... 18 s/mile quicker at a slightly lower HR. Seeing pace drift but not too bad. Onwards and upwards...
My PB 5k pace is about 8:15, but this is measured as the first 5k on longer runs. I have never done a timed 5k race as such and probably never will
Chick - I can ALWAYS think of an excuse not to do the 2400m test In fact so much so that I've NEVER done one
Cheesy - keep going, you are right it is the same for most people who start HADDing AND yes the fact that your HR doesn't go as high on the same hills IS an improvement. That was the first sign for me when I started that things were changing physiologically. HADD suggests adding 3mins to your 5K pace initially - you could use that as your bench mark for pace and over time the HR will come down given enough time on your feet. Just don't over do it if that pace pushes the HR too high - 75% would be OK initially
Dr.Dan - those subLT runs are really having an effect now - quicker AND lower HR.
Tek - counting the days
Thanks for the advice everyone. I have the day off and have literally been seconds from putting on my shoes and going out. The Achilles feels much better today but still a bit tight. I'm a rock...no running today. But I have to tell you, my legs are tingling (begging for a run).
Chick, that's a nice pace for the easy run. And Dr. Dan, holy shit man, you are on fire. I think you are my role model for biking as a means to xtrain next time I'm shelved. You must be feeling pretty good right now.
Might as well dump last months stats: 228.9 miles in 2:30:57 @ ave pace 8:07 m/m @ HRave 142 (71%).
My progression has been January (170 miles), Feb (116), March (171), April (147), May (216). I should have looked at this earlier. I think I may have jumped a bit too much in mileage but so far holding it together.
Forgot to say - Bede stick it out it'll go in a flash.
VT, thats great mileage. Good month banked. Be sensible with the achilles. Protect what you have.
Tek, do you get psyched up for the sub-lt? (I do). Mine tomorrow too. After yesterdays run I am full of expectation.
DrDan, you are making very sensible, gradual progress. You are in good shape and it won't take long for you to reach a peak. Is the foot fully recovered? Do you still feel it?
Cheesy, BeDe's advice is spot on.
Chick, that is a typically understated easy run. I can feel the contentment across the water. You are in very good shape. The warm weather training is doing you good.
Cheesy we seem to be in the same place. Have just started hadding (which must be a word now) and have found the slow pace a struggle on anything not flat. Found nice stretch of canal path today and managed 5 miles at 12mpm without needing to walk to lower my HR.
Reading the many pages of this fred has convinced me to just stick with it and find the slowest music on my phone to run to as anything else makes me run too fast
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