HADD training plan

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09/12/2011 at 08:24

Laureate - I think you've made a brilliant start, you will do well at this marathon lark

spenda - welcome to the thread.  I too am doing Dartmoor Discovery and North Dorset.   North Dorset is also my target race to get a GFA time, however I'm older and a different sex so my GFA goal is sub 4.15.

I think your recent training problems are so common amongst runners, a combination of that instinctive competitive streak combined with impatience leads to yo yo training and a lot of stress.   But you've done the right thing, by stepping back and assessing your goals and planning the work.    You've also already discovered the beauty of Hadd training, that every run is not race, but another building block in place.

Oops must dash...work

09/12/2011 at 09:53

Brian, PhilPub... agree completely on the core stuff!!  Well worth sticking with for all round conditioning.  My Tuesday 'circuits session' this week was rather aptly called 'The Sweat Box'!  40 minutes of 30-rep exercises (squats, burpees, sits, lateral raises, etc, etc) broken up by running twice round the gym in between each set - nice!!   Fortunately, yesterday was an Italian National Holiday which meant no Thursday Circuit session - I got to play in the British 'Turkey Trot' golf compeititon instead.  Even better is that working on the HADD principle that a 90min run is better than 2x45min, I stayed on for a couple of beers afterwards and left my traners on the shelf - knowing that I could salve my conscience this afternoon... and it's another glorious day for a jog along the sea-front .

Hanno un grande fine settimana, gente!

09/12/2011 at 09:57

Thanks Shades, I appreciate the compliment.

09/12/2011 at 10:17

Spenda, Welcome to the fred. Impressed with your pb's btw.
My take on your build-up would be to do 6 weeks hadd 70% (building to 50mpw), 6 weeks incl 2x80% runs, then for the last 6 weeks moving to a more traditional schedule but with hills included.
By traditional I mean P&D or Hal Higdon based, with your own tweaks to make it bearable.

I think you could Hadd all the way to the marathon, adding some faster stuff (as Joe did), but it
depends on what "floats yer boat". Good luck with the comeback. No reason why you can't pb again btw, my pb's came at 48 years young, and now I'm 50 I still believe I can pb at marathon.

Sneglen, Hadd (and the others on here) all quote % of max.

Funny Hat, Good luck with HM. Look forward to your stats.

Laureate, E lo stesso per voi!

09/12/2011 at 12:04
Brian. I pretty much new that re heart rates, it was a vague attempt to add a few beats and go a bit quicker !!

Well it's been a fantastic week. Just to be out there again is good. Gone from run/walking to learning how to go even slower and am now "running" the whole time. It's all terribly slow, but I've actually gone out 5 times this week (2 followed by a 4hr shopping trip) and no ill effects on the foot and ankle.

Could someone advise me with the heart rates. During the week I have either slowed down or walked when the heartrate has gone over say 146. 75% of max is about 142. Those runs produced an average of 138/9. Today I went by feel and never looked at the monitor. Average 143 which I was chuffed with but max was 161 and most of the run seemed to be in the high 140's. Should that be slowed down or is the final average the figure to be using.

Hope that all makes sense. Thanks very much.
09/12/2011 at 12:40
Thanks for the comments
Shades- I guess I'll be seeing you next year. I know what to expect from the DD, but not sure how hilly NDVM is. It looks ok on course profile, but I'm not sure how much to adjust pace to account for hills.
Brian - thanks, but I feel like a completely different person now ! My long term goal is to do VLM 2013 cos I'll be a V45. If I can get a GFA next spring, I will have time for full on Hadding next Autumn in preparation for 2013. I think your plan looks about right, but I need to be disciplined to do 6 weeks of 70%.
By traditional, I mean P+D style. I've done this in the past, but from a much higher starting level than I am at now.
I'm impressed and encouraged that your PBs came at 48.
09/12/2011 at 14:40

Good to see the thread still powering on and some new Hadders!

I'm back into some gentle running after my cold-induced layoff.  The cold ended-up on my chest which extended the break to just over 3 weeks.

A couple of easy runs this week have given me a bit of encouragement.  Easy running still feel nice and easy...its just that the heart rate at which I am doing them is a fair bit above where I had got to pre-cold.

So, nowhere near back to square one but some ground to make-up.

I've kinda missed squeezing my tube over the last few weeks

09/12/2011 at 15:32

Sneglen, thats a very good question. And I guess you may get different answers from different Hadders. I use HRav when running at the top end 80%+, and try and stick to max at the bottom end. So when I do 70mins at 80%, I ensure the average is 149-152 therefore rigidly sticking to 80% HRav. But when I womble, I tend to average lower than the 70%. Eg. today was a hilly road recovery run and I averaged 123 (66%), whereby most of the run would've been at about 130.

09/12/2011 at 16:24
Thanks for that. I think I'll work out how to use the heart rate alarm on my watch and set the upper end for maybe 150, then I'll know to slow down a bit. Hopefully I'll spend less time too high and still have a good average. Will try it out on Sunday.
Other than that I'm at a stage where I have speeded up just a small amount but enough that I would no longer be able to walk at that speed. Onwards and upwards.
10/12/2011 at 10:22

Sneglen - you're making good progress.   Good idea to set the alarm on your watch as if you let your HR go too much higher than target HR you lose more time/pace on your run than if you reined it in earlier before HR gets too high.

Spenda - I wouldn't call North Dorset hilly, to me it is undulating but with no significant hills, certainly nothing of Discovery type.  Beautiful course, quiet country roads, one of my favourite marathons.

Lamb chop - glad you're better and back training now.

11/12/2011 at 10:53

Thanks Shades. I'm looking forward to getting back into the swing of things

11/12/2011 at 12:53

I suppose my strategy with HR is slightly different because my reasons for HADD'ing aren't entirely orthodox.  The main reason for me to keep the pace easy is not so much to develop the aerobic system as such, more a case of applying an objective limit to pace in general to ease my legs/muscles/joints back into running after injury.  So today, for example, I was quite happy to let my HR drift over 140 going up a steady hill, because the pace had dropped off anyway and I felt that the legs were working comfortably even if the heart and lungs were being very more slightly stretched.

Converseley when I'm running downhill, rather than take advantage of the drop-off in HR by opening up the stride and increasing pace, I'm being careful to keep the stride easy to avoid putting too much stress on the legs, and this is possibly one of the reasons why my average HR is still quite low, cos it really does drop off even on a gentle downhill.

Back into double figures - 10 miles this morning, HR 137/68%max, 7:48/m. Comfy. 

13/12/2011 at 10:18

Cracking stats Phil. You won't be long before your in pb shape again!!! Was that a flat road run?

13/12/2011 at 10:46

Brian - I've been advised to stick to flat, even surfaces as much as possible whilst I'm building back up.  The only notable slope was the hill going up the middle of Greenwich Park but the rest of the run was mainly flat, mainly on tarmac.  (I head for the grass if it's not looking too lumpy.)

Clearly my heart and lungs are in good nick at the moment. What I'm finding is that there are certain muscles in the legs which, unsurprisingly, aren't reached by cycling or anything that I do in the gym, but are being woken up again by running.  So I'm getting back from the run feeling fresh as a daisy but later on in the day or the next morning I've got (fairly gentle) DOMS in the lower calves and a little less in the quads.  So it's a nice feeling that the legs get more running shaped again.

13/12/2011 at 11:11
Hi Lamb Chop, Glad you're back! Good luck with the training. Gentlee, gentlee.....
14/12/2011 at 13:33

Thanks Brian gentlee it is for the time being

I was due to have done my second mini-test by now but I think I'll defer to early Jan and focus on getting back up to speed (albeit a low speed)


14/12/2011 at 16:57
FunnyHat, how was the Bedford HM?
14/12/2011 at 20:25

After the end of 12 weeks of HADD training I took my 3rd test.  I won't post the detailed results as it will upset me to much.

I was slower on every single  HR point  (110,120 etc) and therefore slower overall. In statistical terms I have gone backwards. In my 3 tests I have progressively taken longer every time. 

 The 110HR test has gone from 15:31 to 16:13

The 150HR test has gone from 10:04 to 10:15.

The oddity is that I feel much fitter, have got up to 13 mile training runs and in the first session I could not get my HR above 137 and yet I hit 160 today. I feel much fitter and do not regret the 12 weeks spent training but in real terms I have nothing to show for it.

Make of that what you will.

14/12/2011 at 20:55

Johnny look at the positives.... Running 13 mile training runs... HR up.... And feeling much fitter.....

Untill you actually test yourself in a race, or a course you've done in the past, then reserve judgement... I've only been doing had six weeks, and have run three races during that time and have seen massive improvements, nothing in my initial speed, but in the stamia aspect.....

I've read a lot of HADD stuff on various forums, and found this link below interesting. put together by one of John HADD Walsh's pupil's, written a few months ago after he died....


Always look at the positives Johnny......

15/12/2011 at 10:47

You sound like you should be managing an England sporting team Bluenose "we've got to focus on the positives"

I'm very glad you started this thread JB.  The main benefit for me has been that I've been able to increase weekly milage way beyond my previous threshold.  Sounds like you may also have benefitted in this regard.

I kind of understand where you're coming from with the test results though.  If I do mini test 2 and come out as equivalent or worse I will be pretty bummed...but not for long.

Maybe regroup and plough on for another test cycle?  Would be a pity to pack it in now and then wonder if you stopped prior to turning a corner.

Good luck either way

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