HADD training plan

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09/07/2012 at 12:10

chickadee - well done, sounds like hard work in that heat though !!

Dr Dan - thanks .... nice mileage/work, i hope to be at that level myself one day.

Brian - how did the HM go ??

As i said a few days back, i was itching to find out how my LSR was going to go this weekend. Anyway, i was relatively pleased with it although i struggled to keep HR below 75% for the last 2 miles ( 80% in places ) but then there was some fairly steep climbs in those 2 miles . I was tempted to walk at points to keep HR down but the run was 13.1 miles so i wanted the psychological victory more than the low HR  . Ended up HRav 71% @ 10:24/mile and my legs felt pretty strong at the and.

 I say relatively pleased because i expected my HR and/or pace  to be a bit better than that based on my recent runs, but it's 13.1 miles in the bag so have to be positive.


09/07/2012 at 15:49

mace, nice one! Another one with a 2hr+ run. They do make a difference.... The HR will always increase after 60-70mins. Dehydration and carb depletion become factors beyond 90mins.

I was well pleased with the half. With 2 weeks good training, I managed 12th overall in 87mins, and bagged the coffin dodger prize. Excellent run as always, tough, tough hills but I was prepared (have done the race 3 times before), good food and beer afterwards.


09/07/2012 at 16:12

Brian - great run ... ridiculously good time even without the hills  !!!

I have a half marathon at the end of September, do you think i should stick with this distance as a weekly long run until then ?  


09/07/2012 at 18:20

Brian... nice run.... 87 mins.... I can only dream of that at the moment.... give me 12 months and I too will be aiming for the old codgers prize 

Bit of a breakthrough run for me today when I least expected it.... flew into California yesterday afternoon, had a fair few beers last night, pretty jetlagged and went out this morning after not much sleep, felt surprisingly good and managed 60 mins at 5:20/km

As I was running I realised that for the first time in years I'm really enjoying it again.... the only pressure is to go slow enough.

Let's see what my next run Wednesday morning brings.

10/07/2012 at 01:06

Well done, Brian! A blistering pace on hills to be sure.

I'm happy to report that my foot has recovered from the ill advised 20 miler a couple of weeks ago. The past two weeks have averaged about 65 miles with 2 ILTHR runs per week (7 miles of 80% Tues; 10 @80% Friday with a good long run each week on Sunday (in fact Sunday I did 16 miles; 11 easy and last 5 at 80% and they were fast and felt good)...rest of week was easy running). The positives are that my body is holding up (knock on wood), my ILTHR runs are getting more comfortable, and my HR/pace on the easy runs is really improving. My max HR is about 200 and I have usually seen my easy efforts at 145 or so for months. The past few weeks I'm consistently running about an 8:20 m/m pace at around 138 ave HR. And my holy sh*t moment was earlier in the week as I ran an ILTHR at a 7:02 m/m pace (usually I run closer to 7:30 for these). In that run, it felt like my recent 5K...my body felt like it couldn't slip into another gear, by my HR wasn't hitting 80% and the effort felt surprisingly easy.

Will touch base in a few more weeks. For now, an encouraging start to the formal training program.

10/07/2012 at 13:24

Looking very good VTrunner ... just don't over cook the cake!

10/07/2012 at 14:58

Great breakthroughs MarkF and VTrunner

I seem to be getting slower with every run at the moment . Guess with an increase in mileage and no Hadd training in the previous 8 weeks this was to be expected.

10/07/2012 at 15:18

Some great feedback from fellow freddites. Great to see the sensible approaches paying off with good improvements.

mace, you should just play the long run by ear. I think as you get nearer to your target race, maybe shorten every alternate long run and build in some quicker stuff, maybe a progressive type run.

10/07/2012 at 23:36

Dr. Dan, good advice. I'll try to keep it within reason. You know first hand how quickly an injury can derail a good thing. Will listen to my body and take it easy.

Chickadeee hang in there. I've always been surprised how quickly the fitness returns once you get back to basics. In a few weeks you'll be singing a different tune I'm sure.

11/07/2012 at 09:40

Brian - ok, so do you mean instead of a 13m LSR, make it maybe 10m progressive ( by progressive i assume this means HR progressive something like 3 @ 70% , 3 @ 75% and 4 @ 80%, rather than pace progressive ? )

And when you say nearer to the race ( which is end of Sept ) is this say 6 weeks out , so assuming alternate LSR and shorter progressive runs, i'd get 3 progressive runs in ?

This being my FIRST race i have to admit i'm starting to feel nervous already with all sorts going round in my head - and it's 12 weeks away yet !! I think thats maybe because i don't have a proper plan and instead i pretty much decide what to run day by day ...

Mark - enjoyment is what it should be about and HADD does help in that respect i've found

VT - MEGA MILEAGE !!!! Nice work


11/07/2012 at 09:52

mace, first of all don't panic! Try and not put any pressure on yourself as it's your first HM. It's good that you are just running day by day, as you are less likely to get injured, by trying to stick to a schedule. You are in great shape and as you probably know you could do the HM tomorrow. Most people when attempting their first HM will get to about 8-10M max and still get round on the day.

10M seems reasonable for your alternate LSR. I would do 2-3 of them, the last one being 2 weeks out. The progression you mention is fine - maybe even allow 80%+ the last mile or 2.

The weekend before go back to your easy paced LSR of about 10 or 11 miles.

Mid-week (3 or 4 days before) I would either do some target race pace, or some strides.

So either 60mins with middle 20mins at your target HR or pace,


60mins with 10x30s strides.  

Which HM are you targetting?


11/07/2012 at 12:46

Brian, thanks for the vote of confidence and i'll try not to panic.

Also for the advice - i'll certainly build that into my training.

I'm doing the Folkestone half on 30th Sept. Apparently it's as flat as a pancake being mostly along the promenade from Folkestone to Hythe and back .... but with a nasty hill at the end from the promenade to the cliff top. Quite like the idea of a nice flat one for my first though.



12/07/2012 at 09:23

Sub-LT session today

My 2 previous sub-LT sessions have left me with a niggly calf/knee which i subsequently had to rest for a couple of days. So i was hoping to get through this without any recurrence.

Although i did feel it again occasionally through the run i ended up in good shape so i remain hopeful that it's just getting used to the increased pace after 4 months or so of easy runs.

Anyway, my stats are ( 1.31m laps ) :

Lap       Distance        Time        Pace         HR          %

1           1.31              12:44        9:44         118         68

2           1.31              11:00        8:22         134         77

3           1.31              10:59        8:22         137         78

4           1.31              11:04        8:26         138         79

5           1.31              11:22        8:40         138         79

6           1.31              13:20        10:08       129         74

7           0.25               2:33         10:11       126         72

Total      8.11              73:02         8:59        131         75


Quite pleased with that and i think i'll keep this as my mid week session for the next month and see where that gets me.


12/07/2012 at 09:26

Oh, forgot to mention that it's in sessions like this that the HR alert on my Garmin comes into it's own .... fantastic feature !!

12/07/2012 at 15:23

Well done mace ... did you deliberately slow down for the last 1.56M as part of a cool down?

I also did a sub-LT session today:

10M total, with 8.25M at sub-LT (8 identical laps).

Lap, PACE,  HR (bpm)  
1, 7:26/m 134 bpm
2, 7:20/m
137 bpm
3, 7:06/m
141 bpm
4, 6:59/m 145 bpm 
5, 7:14/m
144 bpm 
6, 7:12/m
144 bpm
7, 7:18/m 145 bpm 
8, 7:18/m
145 bpm

7:14 /m average pace
142 bpm average HR (79.7 % maxHR)

The first 4 laps got progressively faster as I was struggling to get my HR up to 145 bpm.

Edited: 12/07/2012 at 15:53
12/07/2012 at 16:58

Mace and Dr. Dan...in the spirit of 80% I'm throwing my Tuesday run up...course is fairly hilly but did go out and back. Below is just the Sub-LT portion excluding warm up/cool down:


Mile, pace, HR

1, 6:57/m, 155 bpm

2, 6:54/m, 155 bpm

3, 7:21/m, 157 bpm

4, 7:36/m, 160 bpm (big hill)

5, 7:17/m, 158 bpm

6, 7:04/m, 154 bpm

7, 7:02/m, 158 bpm

8, 6:57/m, 159 bpm

9, 7:15/m, 162 bpm

10, 7:08/m, 161 bpm

7:10/m ave; 158 bpm av (79%)

This one felt pretty good. Felt more comfortable on the last 6 miles than the first 4...wasn't too gassed at the end and could have kept going (maybe not 10 more, but certainly a couple more).


Edited: 12/07/2012 at 17:21
13/07/2012 at 09:49

Dan, VT - bloody show offs

Seriously though, impressive running

My session also felt comfortable once i got into it and i'd never have guessed my HR was edging above 80% if my alarm hadn't told me to slow down. But i guess it's all about staying at that level to push the threshold whereas if you go above it may feel comfortable still but there's less "value" in doing so.

Dan - yes i did a 1 lap warm up and a 1 and a bit lap cool down.

Edited: 13/07/2012 at 09:50
13/07/2012 at 12:13

showoffs indeed, mace

VT runner: I usually find the first few miles harder than the rest of it too. Glad I'm not the only one!

Great pace both of you, Dr. Dan and VT runner

Since it's post your sub-LT runs day, I throw mine in too for good measure

11.35 miles in total with 10.09 miles at sub-LT (8:11 pace and 145 av HR). Don't have my Garmin on autolap at the moment, it's only showing me time, distance and HR so I don't get too p'***d off when the pace is crappy, i. e. I can't post proper splits.
Reasonably happy with that - I managed a shade under 8 mm before but the way things have been going lately (rather badly!) it's a step in the right direction.

13/07/2012 at 16:15

Sometimes I think the first few miles are harder due to pyschological reasons more than anything else...also with the higher mileage I feel like it takes me a long time to really get warmed up (even with a slow 15 minute jog prior).

I'd say a solid round of sub-LTs for everyone. Well done.

I used to run with my current pace displayed on my watch. The past few months I have done all my runs with just the HR screen showing. I think I'm slowly learning the feel of my various speeds (I can just about predict when my HR goes up/down depending on how I'm breathing, etc). It's kind of liberating in a way. Will have to think about how to pace the marathon. I may take a HR approach, but more than likely I'll just manually lap each mile and adjust speed based on current pace and how I feel rather than HR. My hope is that all this sub-LT running will really get me dialed in so can shoot to average say 165 for the marathon. Last time around I think I was at 158 but I ran much slower at the same HR.

Regarding burning the cake, I have developed some soreness on the outer edge of my abs near the groin. Have taken the past two days off and it has improved greatly. Will rest again today and test the waters tomorrow with an easy run. I'm a little nervous about it as it kind of sounds like a sports hernia (actually was hurting to sneeze this week). Anyway, pain free sneeze this morning, but still a little discomfort around.

Have a great weekend everyone.

13/07/2012 at 21:54
Cracking sub lt runs - you know who you are. My turn tomorrow.
Enjoy the weekend everyone.....
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