HADD training plan

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19/07/2012 at 16:23

mace ... 9.2M with 6.5 at subLT sounds good. I'd aim for a period of doing two such sub-LT sessions per week before thinking about increasing the sub-LT distance of one (build the 2nd one in gradually).

Tempo is often used to describe a steady pace, "comfortably hard" ... so a sub-LT session might be considered tempo run. Actually tempo has a more narrow definition of being your 10 mile race pace, or 5K pace + 30s etc, and equates to something around 90% maxHR). A progressive run is different ... it starts slow and builds up. So, for example, start easy, then MP, then HMP, the 10KP, then 5KP.

Edited: 19/07/2012 at 16:24
20/07/2012 at 09:52

right sub-LT run out of the way . 12m in total - with 10 @ 80%. Worked out a lot slower than last week (8:24 compared to 8:11) but I have a number of excuses ready :

  1. it was blowing a right hooley ... splits therefore all over the place from 7:42 (downhill with a tailwind) to 8:43 (uphill into a headwind ).
  2. Did speedwork yesterday
  3. am on track for my first 60 mile week

Enjoy the weekend, folks.


20/07/2012 at 11:35

Nice work Chick ... nice excuses too . I'm off for mine shortly (*winces*).

20/07/2012 at 12:14

Hi all - i have a very quick question and I fully admit I have not read this whole thread properly. I did ask dr dan about this ages ago but I kinda lost track of things. If I were to start HR based training would using Heart Monitor Training for the Compleat Idiot be my best start or should I start doing HADD? I have been running regularly since I spoke to you last Dan and have been up to 12 miles now in one run. I am prepared to run for as many days as is necessary and for as long as is needed. Unlike many people I have spoken to I do not find running for extended periods of time a chore - I find it somewhat of a meditating type of experience actually.

So in summary - should my next step be to research HADD and work out a HADD plan or just follow a plan in the book? I have the book already by the way.

Thanks in advance.


20/07/2012 at 13:46

Tortuga... The good thing about the HADD plan, if you're not worried about the science, is that it is very easy to follow... you only have two HR zones, one for easy runs, one for tempo runs...

I'd suggest you read the HADD PDF and work out what your zones are, then just run until you get to the point where you can begin some tempo work.

I like this HADD training... no need to think, no need to suffer, just enjoy running slowly.... and it appears to work.... I'll carry on using it until I start some marathon training for next spring, at which point I think the Pfitzinger plan will do me.

Edited: 20/07/2012 at 13:47
20/07/2012 at 14:27

Dr Dan - i've just started one sub-LT session a week ( well, for about the last 3 or 4 weeks slowly building it up ) so don't want to add another in just yet. But i agree, i'll eventually add another rather than increase mileage on 1 session , so thanks for the advice. 

Chickadee - perfectly valid reasons, plus you're a week older


20/07/2012 at 15:38

DrDan thanks. Intended to fish the river but it was too high. Ended up fishing a carp pond. Had a great day, all 4 of us catching a few good fish.

Chickadee, Track work is an acquired art. The surface makes you run quicker, so you need to make a real effort not to go off too fast. And as you say it is enjoyable.

mace, I don't use HR on the track. But I do look at the data out of interest.

20/07/2012 at 16:23

MarkF thanks for the reply. I will read the PDF this weekend. 

I will be cycling and swimming in addition to HADD based running. Swimming for me is as low intensity as i can make it. I am not a very good swimmer and i am shooting for duration not distance. 

However, cycling OFTEN sends my heart rate shooting up very high. If I train on my bike and get in to the anaerobic zone regularly will this negatively impact my HADD training for running?


Edited: 20/07/2012 at 16:23
20/07/2012 at 16:39

Tortuga ... I am cycling as well... only running 3 days a week, all currently "easy" runs so I'm not that bothered about my HR for my rides.... however once I start doing tempo sessions I'll rein the cycling in to be as much as possible aerobic since I think this may well impact my running at this point.... i.e. keep my HR on the bike at about the level it would be if I was running an easy session.

My focus is running till spring, at that point I'll start "proper" tri training again.

Edited: 20/07/2012 at 16:40
20/07/2012 at 16:48

Why couldn't you be doing tempo runs AND cycling in higher anerobic zones when you want to? BTW have you seen the Fink plan from Be Iron Fit? How do you feel about that compared to HADD?


20/07/2012 at 17:07

Hi Tortuga ... I'm also swimming & cycling but I don't worry about HR on the bike.

Sub-LT session today. Tried to push things up a notch from the usual 145 bpm upper limit but it took 3M to get there. 10M total, with 8.3M at sub-LT (comprising 8 identical laps).

 7:27/m 135 bpm
 7:07/m 140 bpm
 7:04/m 145 bpm
 7:02/m 148 bpm
 7:09/m 147 bpm
 7:09/m 148 bpm
 7:13/m 148 bpm
 7:12/m 149 bpm

 7:09/m average pace
145 bpm - average HR (81.5 % maxHR)

20/07/2012 at 17:10

DAN - so if i run 6 or 7 days a week following HADD i can cycle at whatever pace i want at whatever HR i want including some big hills that really push my heart rate very high but that will not ruin my HADD plan? IF that is the case i will start HADD soon! Thanks.

One other thing - in pm's we talked about heart rate monitor training for the compleat idiot... am i better off just getting straight on to HADD?

Also - have any of you guys seen Be Iron Fit by Don Fink? How does that compare to HADD? I want to make running my focus until april but if i could cycle and swim to my hearts content in the mean time i would be a very happy chappy.

20/07/2012 at 19:28

Sorry to be thick but after reading the had doc twice I am really only sure about what my various HR's are. I need to test it properly but I am going to work on the basis that my MAX HR is 180. This would mean that my HRmarathon is 160, Easy Running HR is 130, and ILTHR 140-145. Is that right?

What I can not see is how many miles per day I should be running. Anyone got any advice? I am a relatively new runner and have worked my way up to 20 miles per week in my last two weeks of running. 



20/07/2012 at 20:27
Your easy pace assuming your HRmax is 180 will be between 70%-75% ( 126-135 bpm). LT pace is initially 80% ( 144 bpm )

Personally I would do a max test to be confident with these ranges though as the HRmax is key to the effectiveness of this training.

The idea is to build up to 5-6 hours per week including a LSR of 2 hours. Then once you can run for an hour at the same pace and at the same HR ( ie no cardiac drift ) you then build in a session of 80% to improve your pace/ increase your lactate threshold.
20/07/2012 at 20:32

Tortuga - I'd say at your current mileage of 20 a week you could do 4 runs a week - 8m LSR at weekend, 5-6m midweek then a couple of 3/4's. Build up by 2-3m a week over the next 6 weeks.

Edited: 20/07/2012 at 20:38
20/07/2012 at 21:55

Tortuga - I'd say the same thing as mace.

As for cycling ... well, I personally I wouldn't worry too much. I guess thats swimming in lactate is not great for base building ... but then again you're using different muscles. You first need to build your running mileage ... just run  at 70-75% maxHR for several months and get some miles in your legs. Then, and only then, start to think about sub-LT sessions.

20/07/2012 at 22:41
Guys while warming up I started jogging very very slowly. Tiny pigeon steps hardly lifting my legs. My hr shot way past the 130bpm up to 148 and even above I was fasting at the time as it is Ramadan. Do you think this could have caused it? No way I can even run walk and stay at the desired HR
21/07/2012 at 08:57

Tortuga.. I have followed the Fink plan, for an IronMan, and found it very good... mainly the intermediate one.

The reason I will try to keep my HR low on the bike after including tempo runs in my schedule is that my focus is running until Spring, and I know through experience that a hard session on the bike leaves me empty for a couple of days.

If you're planning to do an IronMan (next year ?), then building a big base by following HADD and doing low intensity cycling/swimming before starting the Fink plan starts would be an excellent idea.

As for your HR problems.... I'd be surprised if 180 was your max, you'll need to work it out.... go blast some hills on the bike till you feel like vomiting... that'll be your max. Also, don't worry about finding it difficult at first to keep the HR low... it is.... perservere and you'll get there.

Edited: 21/07/2012 at 08:59
21/07/2012 at 09:35
MarkF really glad to find a triathlete here According to Karvonen my max hr should be 185. Looking back at stats from all my runs and mountain bike rides the highest hr I ever reached was 175. That includes cycling up some hills that killed me as well as my first and only 10k race a couple of days ago. I will do a max test at some point but it is hard right now due to Ramadan and the fact that I am fasting in the day.

Like you my priority is running until april when I do my first ever marathon - vlm2013. I had hoped to do my first ironman in the same year, challenge Henley or ironman Wales, but there is not enough time between the two to do fink. There is only about 20 weeks. Maybe I should target imuk 2014...

I did more reading and I think because I will be a bit dehydrated when I am running (at the end of my fast just before I can eat and drink) this will explain why my heart rate will jump so high.. I can not avoid this until Ramadan is over. I am wondering if I run as slowly as I can whether this will help me build a base even though my hr will be too high.
22/07/2012 at 08:30
Welcome tortuga and good luck with the tri training. As you say whilst you are fasting the hr will be higher mainly due to dehydration. My advice would be to run easily only, accept the fact that the hr will be higher than normal. Only run short in this period (up to 45mins only), and try to run as early in the day as you can. Be sensible and don't worry about training seriously till ramadan is over.
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