HADD training plan

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22/07/2012 at 08:38
Thx for the welcome Brian. I will do as you say. I tend to train at the end of the day day so that I can drink soon after my training. Actually last night I did 90 mins on my turbo trainer at 130bpm hr at 12.30am lol. HADD applies for the bike too right? I have a 75 mile off road ride in Sept do I thought I would try to build some endurance for it over then next few weeks. Does this only work if you do it very day or does it still have benefits at 3 times per week?
22/07/2012 at 10:39

Week 5 done for me.... nothing special performance-wise but the simple fact I managed to run 37.5km this week without any niggles is a bonus.....

60:01 @ 149bpm - 5:42/km (flat but I had jetlag from hell)

62:40 @ 147bpm - 5:36/km (hilly)

93:34 @ 148bpm - 5:56/km (hilly)

Tortuga ... that sounds exactly the kind of turbo session you should be doing, must have been deadly dull though.... I bought myself a Tacx Fortius a few years back and it's the best investment I ever made... a couple of hours climbing a virtual Col du Galibier is much more interesting than staring at the wall.

22/07/2012 at 11:05
Oh I watched a couple of episodes of fringe. I have sufferfest too but I will put that on hold and keep doing the 130bpm rides. My bum was sore though
23/07/2012 at 00:05

Hello HADDers. I did my first HADD run today. I did 6 miles at an average heart rate of 131bpm (my max is between 180 and 185 - i KNOW i need to test it but I can't do that for the next few weeks). It was like one big warmup run! My pace was 15:47 min/mile! I got abuse twice on my run from kids who couldn't believe how slowly I was running.

I just want to know if this really is an ok pace to run at. FYI my 10K pace (i've only ever done one 10K race) was 9:23 min/mile. Is there a minimum pace you should run at for HADD regardless of your heart rate? 

I just want to make sure I am doing this right before I spend LOTS more time on this plan. My plan is to spend the rest of this year building up base endurance and then from Jan start training for the VLM properly. Is it right that I just focus on easy runs for now and avoid the ILTHR runs or should I be doing those now too?

You can see my run stats at http://connect.garmin.com/activity/202069459

BTW - i am trying to decide whether to use HADD or Parker (Compleat Idiots Guide). I thought they were based on similar principles but they easy pace for both is VERY different. HADD has me running at 130bpm while parker has me running at 145bpm on my regular long runs. That's a massive difference that I was not expecting! I really can't decide which route to go down.

Edited: 23/07/2012 at 02:09
23/07/2012 at 10:25

Tortuga  ... 9:23/m at 10K equates to about 9/m at 5K. Your slow pace according to Hadd should be no slower than 5K pace + 3 min (so 12/m for you). I think you should not worry too much about which plan at the moment ... what you need is to get more miles in your legs first. Build up the weekly mileage gradually and stick to 11-12 min/mile pace, while saving the "hard work" for the bike. In 2-3 months down the line, you'll be in a much better place with your running.

16.3M run for me on Sunday morning. First 10+ miles were at  63% maxHR (10/m) and then I made the next 5M progressive ... came out as 9:06/m(68%), 8:47/m(70%), 8:06/m(73%), 7:46/m(76%), 7:13/m(81%), and then a recovery jog back home. Longest run of the year but felt comfortable throughout and enjoyed the progressive bit.

Sprint Tri next weekend an then it's all-out marathon training.


23/07/2012 at 10:59

Dan - thx for the info on the paces. I guess I will work on increasing volume at around 11.30 min/mile although a part of me tells me that is not really HADD and i may as well just stick to what i was doing before or have a shot at Parker's Compleat Idiot book. What is your plan for marathon training btw?

Good luck with the sprint tri

Edited: 23/07/2012 at 10:59
23/07/2012 at 12:01

Once you have your 20 mpw mileage up to something more like 35-40 mpw, then you could start making it more Hadd-like (i.e. starting the ILTHR sessions). By that stage I suspect you'd find sub-70% session easier. Hadd says you start these when you're at 50 mpw ... but he was dealing with very good athletes and I for one do not fall into that category!.

Mara training for me is as much miles as is safe, with 1 weekly ILTHR session (10M at sub-LT) and 1 long run with a 5-6M progressive ending that ends up faster than MP (total distance increasing each time). If I can, I'll also put in a 2nd session with some 10K pace and HM pace work, as I really want to PB at HM in September (Lake Vynrwy).

23/07/2012 at 12:19

Dan - cool. I will start putting on the miles This works really well for me actually. I would rather increase frequency than individual run length during ramadan anyway. I will move from my 2x5 mile and 1x10+ mile long run to doing 4x5 mile initially then add an extra 5 mile run day week. This will get me up to 30 mpw with one rest day and i can go longer after ramadan.

23/07/2012 at 12:32

 sounds like a plan!

23/07/2012 at 21:11

Woohoo Garmin arrived today.

Resting heart rate is 52 I think. It did drop as low as 47 but seems to be hovering around 52 for now.

I won't have a chance to try a max HR test so for the moment at age 26 and using a heart rate training calculator I'll be using a value of 152 for 70% so realistically I guess set the alarm for 155 and try to stick below that and see how I get on.

Before geting the HRM I was trying to run steady I was doing between 10 and 10.30 m/mile. No doubt that will shoot up to about 12 once I start using the Garmin

26/07/2012 at 14:11

Weekly Sub-LT session yesterday morning - again, same 1.31m lap with a lap warm up and warm down, total 9.2m with 6.55 at sub-LT. Sub-LT part was .....

Lap       Time           Pace          HR               Last wk

1          10:38          8:03           139               10:45     8:10   139

2          10:44          8:09           140               10:56     8:17   140

3          11:54          8:18           141               11:06     8:28   140

4          11:09          8:31           141               11:15     8:36   140

5          11:18          8:37           141               11:18     8:37   140

TOT      54:43                                                55:20                


37seconds quicker over the 6.55m than last week for about the same effort

On course this week for my first 40mile week


26/07/2012 at 15:33

Looking good Mace ...  as you make these longer, you may want to do the first two laps a bit slower and allow the HR to gradually build to 141 bpm. So, set off at 8:20/m for laps 1 and 2 (HR may be down at, say, 135 for lap 1 and 138 for lap 2) and then, on lap 3, stick to 141 bpm. That would probably help to keep the pace drift down ... for example, you may be able to hold the 8:20 pace over laps 3-5 (or 6, or 7).

No sub-LT session for me this week ... triathlon coming up this Sunday and I was feling a bit worn out on my run on Tuesday ... so I have been backing off and sticking to one of the three disciplines per day (bike yesterday, swim today, run tomorrow, rest Saturday, race Sunday).

Edited: 26/07/2012 at 15:33
26/07/2012 at 15:57

That's a good point Dr. Dan

I guess if i was racing i'd target the average pace of around 8:20 like you say and let the HR rise steadily. I wonder if that fits in with the purpose of the sub-LT session though ? which i understood to be to run at 140 (80%) and try to eliminate the drift as much as possible ? I mean, my drift is 34 seconds between laps 1 and 5 but some of that must surely be natural as it must take a good couple of miles for the HR to settle anyway ?

Maybe i've read it wrong though, i don't really know if i'm honest.

26/07/2012 at 16:05

The advice I've been given in the past is to let the HR rise gradually to the target over the first few miles, rather than banging out a fast pace to get it up to target quickly. The slow build up is likely to be more compatible with being sub LT ... a fast start at HMP probably produces too much lactate over 2-3 miles. I find it makes a big difference when you're running 10M at sub-LT ... those first 2-3M at the faster pace can come back to haunt you.

26/07/2012 at 16:45

hmmm, that makes sense as it goes.

Thanks, i'll give it a go next week.

26/07/2012 at 17:01

So I used the HRM for the first time last night on a 40 minute run aaaaannnnddd my fitness is rather poor.

Guesstimate of 70% maxHR is 150-155, so kept in that range pretty much.

First two miles were around 10.20-10.25/mile which I was happy with but the 3rd mile was 11.20 and remainder of the run was about 11.30 which is pretty shocking cardiac drift.

Anyhoo just gotta stick at it I guess and the initial m/mile and the drift should both start to come down with a bit of luck.

26/07/2012 at 22:37

Well, looks as if everyone is doing well. I, unfortunately, am still in pain. It's been about 2.5 wks since i got hurt and all I've been able to do has been some upper body weights and a couple of low-key exercise bike sessions. I was surprised at how tired I was over the first week without running. I only get about 4-5 hrs sleep per night and have a high stress job. I guess it was a wonder I was consistently running 60+ mile weeks on so little sleep. Anyway, I feel recharged, which is good, but don't know when I'll be running again. Will meet with a Dr tomorrow to see what they have to say. Perhaps a couple more weeks will do the trick. If not, hopefully I can get it repaired and begin again. Since I'm unlikely to make my fall marathon, my new goal will be to just base train all fall/winter/spring. I vow to rip up next year's marathon.

Keep up the good work.

26/07/2012 at 22:48

My running mentor, Shades, advised me to stick with the HR based training even if I am running really slow. 6 miles at 135 bpm this time. Holy cow - it took me 1hr 31mins and the pace was just 15:23 min/mile. 

Dan I know you said to run faster at 12:00 min/mile but my heart rate was up there at an average of 154 bpm when i did that. 

Can someone just reassure me that running at 15:23 min/mile 6 days a week for the next couple of months is actually a good use of my time? It didn't feel like very hard work to be honest.

On a more positive note i found a route where fewer people saw me and i avoided the piss taking teenagers all together


Edited: 26/07/2012 at 22:48
27/07/2012 at 08:32

Tortuga... persevere. The first week I started I was overtaken by an old guy on a hill, I passed him last week (after 5 weeks of HADD) going up the same hill and I was hardly breathing.... I'm running 20% quicker at the same HR for 90 minutes as I was for 30 minutes when I began.

One question... are you sure you really know you max HR ? If you run at 150bpm does it feel easy ? Like you could have a normal conversation ?

As for "is it a good use of my time"... tbh I'm not expecting to be any quicker after all this HADD training at my next HM in October than I was at my last HM in May, but.... (i) I'll have managed to increase my running volume significantly without (fingers crossed) any injuries, (ii) I'll have built a very good base to build some speedwork on top of, (iii) I fully expect a Spring HM 2013 to be 10 minutes quicker than a year previous.

Never underestimate the value of a good base, however slow it feels.... I was running some of my best HMs and 10ks after IM training when I hardly ran more than jogging pace and most of my training was long bike rides.

27/07/2012 at 09:58

DrDan, Good luck with the Tri - let us know how it goes?
Tortuga, Has MarkF says, stick at it. Patience is the key.
VTrunner, Best wishes with the rehab.

Interesting debate on the sub-lt runs. I do a short warm-up to these runs also, 10mins w-up and cool-down with 70mins at 80%. This is because of time restriction. I do most of my running at lunchtimes from work and the maximum time
I can take works out at 1.5 hours running time.

I think ideally a good warm-up say 15mins, plus a mile getting to the 80% would give more accurate results. I think that cardiac drift is most probably masked by the initial rise in the HR.
If we get to the predetermined HR BEFORE we start the measurement, I think the drift will obviously be higher, and therefore more difficult to eradicate.

I sometimes think about doing 20mins warm-up and cool-down and cutting the 80% bit to 50mins to get a "more accurate?" reading, but have never got round to it.

I think the most important factor is to get to the 80% level and hold it for as long as is appropriate. This will always give results and improvement.

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