HADD training plan

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27/07/2012 at 10:02

Oh btw, I did my sub-lt run on wednesday on the canal, and the numbers came out as:

12.18 miles in 90:16 incl 35mins outandback @ 80% (target hr 150) :-

Out   4.94  35:01  7:06   146

Back 4.94  35:41  7:13   148

Much happier than last time

27/07/2012 at 11:25

Out of interest, could some of you look back at your notes and tell me what your running pace was in order to maintain 70% max hr in your first two weeks of running HADD? Also can you tell me when you saw significant change in pace while maintaining the same hr? Seeing other peoples data will give me some more faith this is going to work and that my pace at the outset is not THAT stupid

Mark and Brian - thanks I will stick at it. I really need to get that max hr test done. I'm currently fasting in the day so I run in the last 2 hrs of daylight, go home, and then eat and drink. I usually have a shower before eating and so then later on when i am nourished and hydrated I usually can't be bothered to go and do the max hr test. Maybe I should skip the shower tonigth and just go do the test!

27/07/2012 at 12:09
Tortuga wrote (see)
6 miles at 135 bpm this time. Holy cow - it took me 1hr 31mins and the pace was just 15:23 min/mile. 

Dan I know you said to run faster at 12:00 min/mile but my heart rate was up there at an average of 154 bpm when i did that.

15:23/m is very very slow ... you'll have no running form at that pace. If you can run at 9:23/m for 10K, then I suspect that your max HR estimate is too low (it may be over 200 bpm).  As I said, according to Hadd, you should be running no slower than 5K pace + 3 min (so about 12/m for you).

Historical data ... I used to try to stick to running below 140 bpm for easy runs when I first started HR training in 2009 (based on Parker's approach - my 10K pace would have been 7:35/m at the time). It would not have been slower than about 10/m at sub-140 ... thesedays I can run at that pace at under 120 bpm ... and the old 140 bpm HR limit would be under 8/m now.

Brian - nice sub-LT session. Bet you feel better about life after that.

27/07/2012 at 13:24

I run my easy sessions at around 150bpm.... started HADD at about 6:20/km, after 4 weeks I was down to 5:20/km... I ran my last HM (pre-HADD) at 4:29/km

I reckon your HR max is closer to 200.

I reckon the fasting, and more importantly the dehydration, is probably costing you at least 1.5 minutes a mile in pace.... even fully hydrated you're going to lose 10% performance after an hour running without drinking... given you're starting dehydrated, it's no surprise you're struggling.

I wouldn't worry about performance during Ramadan.... just get out there and run... any measurements are probably not very representative.

Edited: 27/07/2012 at 13:26
27/07/2012 at 13:31

ok guys - back to what dan originally told me then lol. I am still going to go and run up a hill tonight like a loon though and get that max hr sorted. If have had food and water an hour earlier that should allow me to work out my max hr accurately right?

I was going to follow parkers guide to getting my max hr.. which from memory means running up a hill a couple of times.

27/07/2012 at 13:32

ps if i dont make it i'm leaving my heart rate monitor to you guys in my will

27/07/2012 at 14:16
Brian. wrote (see)

Oh btw, I did my sub-lt run on wednesday on the canal, and the numbers came out as:

12.18 miles in 90:16 incl 35mins outandback @ 80% (target hr 150) :-

Out   4.94  35:01  7:06   146

Back 4.94  35:41  7:13   148

Much happier than last time

Brian, I meant to say that it would help my OCD if you could run 0.06 miles further along the canal next time.

27/07/2012 at 14:24
Haha I was thinking the same
27/07/2012 at 14:28
Tortuga wrote (see)
ok guys - back to what dan originally told me then lol. I am still going to go and run up a hill tonight like a loon though and get that max hr sorted. If have had food and water an hour earlierthat should allow me to work out my max hr accurately right?

I was going to follow parkers guide to getting my max hr.. which from memory means running up a hill a couple of times.

An hour isn't much time to digest if you're going for max effort! Also, the fasting will mean your glycogen levels will be low - they may take some time to replenish.

The secret to a maxHR test is to build up the HR gradually ... you don't want to start the 3-4 hill sprints until your HR is already 85-90% max. It's easy to generate so much lactate on a hill sprint that you fatigue before the heart gets to its max ... so helping to get there with a gradual increase in intesnity will mean you start the really hard work with only 15% more to find. Take care though - probably not the best time to do this, given the fasting ... also, perhaps bring someone with you for safety if you haven't maxed out before.

 

28/07/2012 at 20:10

Three runs so far this week for me and a 70m run due tomorrow as well.

These are the first runs I have done with a HR monitor and it's surprising how much my pace slips at the moment. 

For two of the runs my first mile was about 10m/mile, then that would go up to about 10.50m/mile and the third and fourth splits being about 11.30 and nearly 12.00

Middle run last night was all over the place. Aimed to keep between 150-155bpm as usual. First mile was 8.59, second 10.20, third 11.30 and fourth 12.42!

It was blinking hot which probably didn't help and maybe that made hte HRM play up a bit as that first mile was obviously far too quick and took it out of me for the rest of the run.

No doubt these things will even out and hopefully the drift will begin to lessen as I keep going and with a bit of luck the splits will come down a bit too.

29/07/2012 at 09:20

Week 6 done.... not great to be honest... first couple of runs I felt awful, couldn't keep my HR down, I'll put it down to being under the weather. Long run yesterday felt fine apart from an old ankle injury playing up... I'll need to keep an eye on this and probably do a shorter week this week....

68:28 @ 154bpm - 5:44/km (flat but very windy)

76:31 @ 148bpm - 6:14/km (hilly - the worst run I can remember in a long time)

101:33 @ 149bpm - 5:49/km (hilly)

A total of 41.69km - can't remember the last time I ran this far in a week.

29/07/2012 at 19:00
Dr Dan good points. I'll just keep building mileage.
29/07/2012 at 19:26

I decided today that i've been turning into an HR slave during my runs to the point where it was taking over, constantly looking at HR especially up-hill. This detracts from the enjotment of running IMO.

So i've removed HR data from my Garmin data fields and am now showing just DISTANCE, CURRENT PACE, LAP PACE and will run to pace. I feel after 5 months of HADD i should know my pace/HR relationship well enough now over various distances.

LSR this morning felt much more 'free' and enjoyable and i set out to run at 10:20 pace thinking i'd average somewhere around 72% based on recent LSR's. Result was 12m @ 10:15/m @ 70%HRav which i was well pleased with. In a couple of places my 80% alarm went off but i just thought what the heck, it's just a bit of extra sub-LT.

40 miles for the week, my highest yet.

 

29/07/2012 at 20:50

Really enjoyed my long run tonight and chuffed that my splits stayed pretty constant along with HR post mile 2. I consciously tried to keep my pace down for the first mile and practically ignored my HR. Seemed to help with the later miles so I think I will do this in future

 

Split Time Moving Time Distance Avg Pace Avg Moving Pace Avg HR Max HR 1 10:21.3 10:15 1 10:21 10:15 139 151 2 11:02.1 11:01 1 11:02 11:01 147 151 3 11:05.4 11:05 1 11:05 11:05 150 158 4 11:30.2 11:14 1 11:30 11:14 151 156 5 11:09.2 11:09 1 11:09 11:09 153 158 6 10:59.7 11:00 1 11:00 11:00 152 156 7 3:53.5 3:53 0.37 10:33 10:32 154 158 Summary 1:10:01.4 1:09:37.0 6.37 11:00 10:56 149 158
29/07/2012 at 20:51

Oh bugger that didn't really work

30/07/2012 at 10:20
Brian. wrote (see)
DrDan, Good luck with the Tri - let us know how it goes?

SWIM: I was in the first batch of swimmers to start this 7th wave ... 3 in my lane, each starting 10s after the next.The guy behind overtook after a couple of laps which slowed me down a little as I had to wait ... then after 4-5 lengths I started to struggle and had something of a panic attack ... I could feel it coming on and tried to keep calm but it came on anyway (probably started too fast and ended up becoming hyperventilated). I had to roll onto my back and take a few breaths ... then I stopped at the end of the length and did the same ... then it was back to business. Ended up with 8:53 in the pool (8:35 is my best and I could have beaten that had I been calmer).

BIKE: 14.6 mile time trial (no drafting allowed) on a very undulating road in blustery conditions ... great fun but very very very hard work, especially for someone who only commutes 5 miles at a time and has a cheap/hefty cyclo-cross bike with pretty chunky tyres. Nevertheless, I made up 6 places by the end and no one overtook me ... but I was in a few to-and-fro battles along the way (with much fancier bikes). Harewood Bank was great to come down on the way out but particularly hard work coming back ... managed 53:34 ... 16.4 mph average speed. Hard hard work ... I remember asking myself how I was going to run after this.

RUN: Off road 5K-ish - mainly on wet grass but I had come prepared with my trail shoes.On home-ground now ... but it still hurt like hell!! Well, it certainly did for 2K ... and then felt like the closing stages of a HM for the next 3K. Just a case of grinding it out - unlike most running races, I was continually gaining on new groups of people who clearly were not "runners", overtaking and then looking for the next. Quite motivating ... 21:39.

238 competitors. I came 93rd and 6th V45  ... 144th swim, 113th bike and 42nd run. Although the run was 14s slower than last year (I'd just set my 5K PB the week before, so was in good shape), the swim and bike mad up for it, so over all I was and 2 min faster ! Shame about the swim but it only cost me 30s or so in the end.

 

30/07/2012 at 14:11

Great stuff DD .... how far was the swim ?

30/07/2012 at 14:50

Only 400m (16 lengths) ... far enough as far as I was concerned.

31/07/2012 at 08:26

DrDan, Great overall effort! Take it easy this week.

Whats next on the horizon?

31/07/2012 at 09:44

I'm hoping to squeeze in a parkrun on Saturday. Next big events are the Lake Vynrwy HM on 9th Sept and Chester marathon on 7th Octr. Need to start getting the miles in now!!

I seemed to recoverd quickly from the tri ... I think the "shared workload" from different muscles means that you don't over-do things, despite feeling pretty tired at the time. So, I biked to work yesterday (5M), ran back on the canal (7.5M) and ran back in this morning (5M). Planning my long run for tomorrow as we're off to London this weekend.

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