HADD training plan

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02/08/2012 at 16:51

Dr.Dan - i see what you're saying but 23 seconds per mile slower seems too much ? And my drift towards the end ( between laps 4-5 ) was only 6 seconds last week but 12 seconds this week .... i'm going to rest a bit more this week and have another crack next week, hopefully refreshed with the extra day off and less mileage and with a better nights kip the night before . I'll report back next Weds/Thurs.


F1nch - i gave up the smokes about 8 years ago and can vividly remember going running for the first time in 20 years about 2 months after, having piled on the pounds. After half a mile my lungs were close to collapse. Nowadays i do most of my running slower than i did then but i'm much much fitter .....

Have you done a max test ? If not, i'd recommend you do so. If you have done one and are confident in your result, it looks to me like you need to drop to maybe 12m/m to get to 70-75% which would fit in roughly with your 10k time ( ie 9.20m/m @ 10k ~ 9.00m/m for 5k so your easy pace is around 5k pace + 3m/m = 12m/m )

A few weeks/ a month at that pace should see your pace improve for the same HR. I believe the recommendation for HADD is that you can run at 75% initially but reduce to 70% as pace improves.

Good Luck


Edited: 02/08/2012 at 16:55
02/08/2012 at 20:03

Thanks for the reply Mace, I want to get out tonight and do a max test but I'm suffering from some nasty blisters on the side of both my big toes! Wondering if my Adidias Supernovas are too narrow? 

Edited: 02/08/2012 at 20:03
02/08/2012 at 22:26

Hi Folks,

My last post for a while. Based on my last visit to the sports medicine group and a flare up of the injury after some yard work, I'm out of the game for what looks to be months. The time frame seems to be 4-6 months of doing basically nothing (no heavy weights, no running or any other exercise that will strain the injury (which is basically anything you do). ANd most of the time, this rest period (with some core strengthening PT) doesn't resolve things...surgery is typically required. Tempts me to want to just get the repair but that would be a very short sited view. Will take the conservative (albiet long) road. Anyway, good luck to all as you train for fall races.

My next pain free run will be slow, feel like shit, but will be golden all the same.


03/08/2012 at 09:15

 Best of luck VTrunner ... things were going pretty well, so even more gutting. I spent 4 months out at the end of last year/start of this ... my advice is to hang in there ... focus on something else (more me it was swimming & cycling). Get fixed ... and enjoy the comeback.

03/08/2012 at 09:37

VT - sorry to hear that, i hope you recover well and it doesn't take too long.

 From memory, was it you who ended up with this after a 20m run ? Or was that another injury ? Or another person even  ....

03/08/2012 at 11:05

VTrunner, Gutted for you.  All the best for the rehab.

03/08/2012 at 15:26

VT runner . My heart goes out to you. Hope you recover well and come back stronger.

welcome F1nch. Well done for kicking the nasty smoking habit. I did when I was about your age and have never looked back. It took a long time to get reasonably fit though. Managing a sub 60 10k is great and shows you have natural talent. And of course you have youth on your side . Doing a max. test on your own is extremely hard. I wonder if there was a race in the near future that you could do? Like a 5 or 10k. Much easier to get the old pump going in a race environment. Expect to feel . Good luck!

06/08/2012 at 09:06

Easy week last week ending up with 10m yesterday morning, really squeezed the toothpaste @ HRav 66%


06/08/2012 at 23:03

Thanks for the good wishes everyone. Picked me up just now to read them. Chickadeee...no doubt I'll be back eventually...and hopefully stronger than before. One good outcome already is that a chronically irritated joint in my foot is now pain free for the first time in 18 months. Pehaps all my parts will be healed and 100% when I begin again.

Mace, I did stress my foot after a recent 20 miler, but that subsided quickly. The adominal problem that I'm now dealing with occured on an 80% run. Just felt a slight twinge in the middle of that run...nothing to note really...was later that night when all hell broke loose. I think I got hurt by ramping up to the 80% runs too quickly. I should probably have done a single run each week for a few months...but after about a month I started doing them 2X per week. Although thinking back on it I felt strong and was improving each run. My PT said when we are setting PRs and feel super fit we are about 1 wk away from a major injury. I think I probably need a coach (to tell me when to ease off the gas). Oh well....

Later all.

07/08/2012 at 11:57

VT - that's very useful info and has made me stop and think about where i could be heading.

I've been slowing increasing mileage to 40 per week and eased off last week with the intention of increasing again over the next month leading up to my Half at end of September. But , like i say, your post has made me think and i'm going to stay at around 40 and get used to it. I was also toying with the idea of adding another sub-LT session ; again, i'll knock that on the head for now and stick to 1 a week.

So thanks and good luck to you.

07/08/2012 at 19:51

Mace, in response to your thoughts, I am definitely going to move slower next time. Last October I ran my marathon, then developed a pretty good case of peroneal tendonitis shortly after (ran too hard, too soon)...then sprained my ankle badly...so other than doing some elliptical in late November/early december, I started running from scratch again in late december. My first two weeks were about 15-20 miles per week...then I slowly built up to doing 24 miles (wk3), ~30-40 (wks 4-17),  ~40-50 (18-24) , 50-60 (25-29), 60-70 (30-35), then injury. I started the 80% runs in the last 13 weeks (all rest of my runs were 75% or less...most closer to 70). I only started doubling the 80% runs in the last 3 weeks. So it could be that the combo of running 60+ miles in a week, with two being 80%, that did me  (perhaps upping the mileage and intensity all at once was too much). Thanks for asking though as I hadn't formally looked at my progression. FWIW, last year i usually ran somewhere around 40 miles per week preparing for the marathon. Before that, more like 25-30. So In less than two years I went from say 30 mile weeks to mid60s. While I felt awesome before I got hurt, i now think I was really asking for it. I read you should only add to your weekly mileage by say 10 miles per year.

Dr. Dan...am desperate to find that one aerobic activity I can do without pain. Before my flare up I was able to use a sit down (legs out in front) stationary bike that didn't seem to exacerbate things. Might try that again when this acute pain has calmed again.

Edited: 07/08/2012 at 20:11
07/08/2012 at 21:03
VT - I tend to agree that's a fair build up of miles and adding in 2 speed sessions at the same time seems to be asking for trouble.

I got a bit ahead of myself recently and it wasn't until Brian made a comment about not adding miles and quality at the same time that I stepped back and looked at my training and saw straight away why I was probably getting a few twinges in my knee/ calf.

Interesting comment about 10 miles a year as well. I was running max 15 a week up to march pre HADD. So at 40 a week that suggests I should hold for a good few months ?

I think maybe it's easy to get carried away as a novice such as myself when improvements come relatively quickly. Like you say, start to feel like superman !! Important to remember that JOE in the hadd document was an elite athlete so him being told by John HADD Walsh to get to 50 miles a week ASAP would have been something well within his ability and the higher mileage thereafter would be needed for him to improve on his already impressive mara pb of 2.30 ish?

Again, thanks VT
08/08/2012 at 09:19

Much Much Much happier with this week's sub-LT run. 9.5m (80 mins) with just under 8 @ sub-LT ( 65 mins )

Lap   Miles    Time      Pace     HR      %               Last wk            Wk before

1       1.31      11:02     8:19     135      77             8.41     136         8:03     139

2       1.31      10:42     8:04     137      78             8:37     138         8:09     140

3       1.31      10:44     8:13     140      80             8:37     139         8:18     141

4       1.31      10:49     8:14     140      80             8:39     140         8:31     141

5       1.31      10:53     8:18     141      81             8:51     140         8:37     141

6       1.31      10:59     8:21     141      81             8:53     140         n/a

         7.86      65:09     8:17     139      80             8:44     139         8:21     140


A fair improvement over last week ( crap nights sleep and due an easier week ? )  which i'll write off as a bad run and better than the week before also. Much tighter than that week, slightly quicker ave pace, slightly less ave effort and an extra 1.3m so held the pace for longer.


08/08/2012 at 09:25

I have a Half Marathon at the end of September.

No race experience whatsover so the session above is all i have to go on. Over the last 2/3 months i've done 14m once, 13m a couple of times and probably 6 runs between 10-12.

If i was running it this weekend, how should i go about it bearing in mind i'd want to give it a decent effort.

Edited: 08/08/2012 at 09:25
08/08/2012 at 11:42

Hi mace, glad your sub-lt run went well.

Given your experience (or lack of) in racing, I would suggest a progressive nature to the HM. This will take the pressure off maintaining a goal pace, and target time. And it makes the whole idea of "racing" 13miles easier to handle.

I suggest splitting it into bite-size chunks of 4M-4M-5M and run them a la:

4M easy (75-80%)

4M allowing the HR to rise to 85%

5M as you feel. This will probably equate to your true potential HM pace, and the HR should be around 90%

This approach guards against failure, or a crash-and-burn as some runners refer to it. It significantly decreases the chance of punishing yourself and having to slow in the latter stages. This type of race also feels good because you end up passing runners rather than being passed. Once you benchmark a run with this approach, it gives confidence and much more idea as to your true race potential.


08/08/2012 at 11:44


08/08/2012 at 12:55

Brian - sounds good to me and i'll give that a go. I guess the hardest part of executing it will be to not get too carried away at the start ....

08/08/2012 at 15:50

VT runner: that's a lot of miles. For me personally 70 is borderline - close to it I break down. Not so much with injury but with illness, especially nasty chest infections. As I have asthma, so bronchitis is not a good thing to have . 60 mile weeks feel comfortable and I enjoy them. Perhaps there is a similar border for you as well that if you cross it, it ends in disaster. Wishing you a speedy recovery and I hope you find something to x-train.

very encouraging LT run, mace!

I broke 8mm for the first time during todays' so there is light at the end of the tunnel . 22 mile run on Sunday at 72% (bang on 9mm) - what a great thing to do! Previously those 20+ milers would have left me knackered for the rest of the day. Now I'm fresh, nothing hurts and I'm ready to go out on bike rides with hubby in the afternoon.

09/08/2012 at 09:15

mace, yes - that's the tough bit. With the adrenaline pumping it's easy to get straght into race intensity. If this happens, you can always try and rejig the plan by say putting the easier running in the middle section. It may be easier to back off at 4/5 miles as you begin to tire.

chickadee, guess you are marathon training - which one are you doing?


09/08/2012 at 09:53

chick' - very nice running

Brian - when i put my entry in about 6 wks ago i estimated my time to be 2:00 - 2:15. I'd be disappointed if i didn't beat that now so hopefully being in that time group ( i assume that's how it works, people are grouped in expected finish times ) at the start will help me start sensibly.    


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