The regular first thing in the morning mince for me too
I think I'm going to have to ditch the music for these Zone 1 runs...every time I look at my watch I'm going too fast (or my heart is). Maybe I just need a slow tracks selection.
One interesting discovery I have made is that a heart rate of 135 BPM for some reason seems to make me want to poop. 2nd emergency pitstop required in a fortnight. If there are any military physicist / biologist / boffin types out there this could be the missing link in Brown note research.
Dan - re race times. A couple yes. One was a Half at Warrington - 1'23'2x, which was about 20-30 secs/mile slower than I was in the Spring. I then did the 6 Stage Relay the week after (only 6k) and was again about 20-30 secs/mile slower.
I then did Amsterdam Mara but didn't 'race' it - but I thought I'd have ran 3'05ish based on the 20-30 secs/mile loss mentioned above if I had raced it (so about 6'55-7'00 pace).
I then did the Hadd test yesterday. My pace for the 4th rep (which coincides with my Mara HR allowing for a bit of drift) was 6'56/mile. I ran London at 6'27 pace I think, so it seems to be bang on where I am right now - about 20-30 secs down.
Aim is obviously to try and get that rep4 pace down to where I was in the Spring, and if it gets to 6'17 pace - well that would be lovely (as that equals a 2'44'xx Mara time!!)
Interesting LS21 ... even in your current state, you're much faster than me at my best (90 min HM, 40 min 10K). And you are capable of maintaining a much higher maraHR than me (10 bpm higher). In theory my Hadd Test stats should come out much slower than yours. When I start back again, I really must do the test thsi time!
Interesting on the Mara HR Dan.
At VLM I set off having a pop at 2'45. My HR was creeping up after only 4 miles. From 157 to 161 between miles 4 and 8. So at 8 I ditched it before I had a car crash! I then ran the rest purely on feel, which came in at 157ish- I ran well as a result.
But I was impressed by just how accurate the Hadd test was for me, in terms of the pace/HR relationship he discusses. As I say, it was pretty much bang on to the second on Rep 4 in terms of what I think my current Mara pace is, so that's a key benchmark/measure for me moving forwards.
Interesting stuff. I am intrigued by the data so, dug my last test out (29th Sep). So just under 3 weeks before Abingdon, on a treadmill at 1% gradient, with 90s rest between each rep:
12:35 120 8:2611:31 130 7:4310:47 140 7:1410:04 150 6:459:23 161 6:17
My max was 190 3 years ago, so I calculate on 187 now. I've seen 184 this year, so won't be far off. My marathon HRs are HRav=165, and I set off at 155. I did Abingdon in 2:56 which works out at 6:42 pace. I ran at 6:35 pace up to about 21 miles when I started to cramp, so eased off.
I think it would make sense for me to do 125-135-145-155-165 in the test, and then the 4th rep should equate almost directly to my marathon pace. Or should I be doing 130-170?
Not sure Brian! I had a similar thought/dilemma prior to doing mine. I wasn't sure whether to go 125-165, or 120-160. In the end I did the former.
Going on my 'vast' experience (err, one test!) I think the 125-165 was right for me, because the 155 reading seems to equate to what my current Marathon fitness is. So following that logic, because your max is 7bpm higher than mine I'd do 130-170, with the 160bpm rep being the one that most closely resembles your current Mara pace. But as I say, I've only done one so not really in a position to advise!
For info my test was done on the track too, all off 90 secs rest.
Phil, That's the great thing about running marathons to HR. It really does help the pacing, especially when conditions are not favourable. If I had a quid for everybody that told me a tail of woe about VLM2011, and how it was too hot!
My best position (600th'ish I think) in London was gained in 2007 when it was hot.
Brian. ... based on the %maxHRs of "Joe" (he tested at 73%, 78%, 82%, 88% and 93%), you should be doing: 137, 146, 153, 165 and174 bpm., so rounding off to 135, 145, 155, 165, 175 .... I reckon you took it a bit too easy!
LS21 ... interesting that your maraHR is 157 bpm as my HM PB of 90:06 was run at 157 bpm. Looks like I need to push my lactate threshold back quite a way!
I ended up with 2'49'09 mate. So I went from 6'17 avg for the first 8 miles out to 6'27ish as a total.
2'45 was always a little pie in the sky really. But I did East Hull 20 a few weeks prior - 5 miles at 7'20ish, and then I tried 15 at 6'15 pace. Managed it ok but I was full on racing for the last 3 really, in order to maintain that pace. But I kind of hoped (rather than expected) that come Mara day after a good taper etc I'd be able to do it. I tried, but realised it wasn't to be - hence the early decision to slow down.
Great time nevertheless! I could just about envisage hitting that pace for a HM one day.
So, if my HM pace matches your M pace, at roughly the same HRs and %maxHRs, how would that show up on the Hadd test? We can run roughly the same pace at the same HR, only you can last twice as long. In the test, I guess I'd get more fatigued in the earlier stages and so my pace for the final stages would drop off. Only one way to find out ... but first I need to heal ... roll on December.
Err, not 100% sure!
But if my understanding of the document/test process is right, the 4th rep HR (i.e. - 155bpm for me/us) = Mara pace. I certainly think that's right for Joe too.
For Joe his Mara HR is 175bpm, which equates to 170bpm for the test (allowing for a bit of drift). The idea (I think) is for Joe to train to get to 5'32 pace for the 170HR Rep during his test, as 5'32 = a sub-2'25 Mara which is his goal. He hits this on his 4th lot of testing, which is after 14 weeks of training.
Hence why I've made the assumption that the 4th rep HR is Mara HR/pace - that seems right for me, and pretty much right for Brian too based on his stats pre-Abingdon. So it will be interesting to see how you get on, and what the results are when you do the test yourself.
Ok guys happy hadding. I'll be off-line now for a week.
I look forward to seeing how you get on keeping your HR below 125bpm running up Mount Teide!!
In for a penny in for a pound
finally got myself a heart rate monitor ,and i have been out and done some tests.My resting heart rate is 50bpm and my max heart rate is 180bpm.
I'm gonna start the long process of getting myself aerobic fit using the hadds approach. I am after some training advice please , i am able to train 5 days a week .
At what heart rate should i do my longer runs at , i will be doing 3 of them and 2 at a slightly faster pace but not going into the LTH zone, as i want to build up some aerobic fitness first . I have my eye on the leicester HM next october so time is on my side to prepare, but i would like to throw in a couple of 10K's but that wouldnt be till june.
any advice and tips would be great
Hi there CW,
Have you checked out this document (below)?
For starters I would try sessions like those on p19...just pro rata the HR shown in the first table by a factor of your MHR divided by Joe's MHR. I think Joe is 193...its in there somewhere. Don't worry about resting heart rate for the time being. Also adjust the durations to fit your current capability.
Then you are good to make a start.
Its up to you when you do your first 2400 repeat mini test...I chose to do mine early so I'd (hopefully) I'd see a nice improvement next time around.
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