HADD training plan

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01/10/2012 at 20:23

Brian - how did the 10k go ??

Thanks, i have to say despite being slightly disappointed with the time it did go well and i'm very pleased. Is the HR something that is managed with experience ? Do you start out higher than you would a training run for the same pace ? The other thing i forgot to mention is that although i hydrated well ( a normal day for me is 3-4 litres and i did that easily in the 3 days before ) as soon as the claxon went to start the race my mouth felt like the bottom of a parrots cage and i felt like i hadn't had a drop for days... must have been nerves !? 

The last mile was bizarre as it goes as i was over the moon with my HR reaching new heights !! Probably one of the highlights of the day

Another important thing i learned - when people say it's difficult to drink from a plastic cup on the run THEY MEAN IT. I hadn't practiced this at all as i didn't think it would be that much of an issue, but found out at the first water station just how difficult it is

02/10/2012 at 09:22

mace, yes I think the HR management will look after itself as you become more accustomed to racing. Like I say, try and relax on the start line, what will be will be. I think the dry mouth is associated with nerves, but if it helps take a small bottle of water to the start line with you and discard it early in the race.

Plastic/paper cups - squeeze the cup to make a mouth-sized spout. Much easier to control the flow this way.

Spen Greenway 10k last week - Target was sub-6 pace, got it bang on - 37:16.

I did Swinton 10M on Sunday, target pace was target HM pace - 6:06. It was windy and undulating so was happy with 61:46 (6:11 pace).

My target HM is Eindhoven a week on Sunday.

Edited: 02/10/2012 at 09:24
02/10/2012 at 09:28

AtD, I know you from the Sub-3 fred. Are you sure it's 213? Seems unlikely to me. How old are you and when (and how often) have you seen this reading?

02/10/2012 at 09:31

mace - just wanted to say congrats for sunday - always a good feeling when you doa  negative split. Also good when passing people late in the race and still feeling OK.

MaxHR changing over time? Is this something that is normal once been on HADD programme for a while? I won't worry about it for the time being as I'm still only 4 weeks in - just wondered after 6 months if I should do a re-check?

02/10/2012 at 09:35

BD2000, HRmax generally decreases by 1 beat per year. I wouldn't bother rechecking until this time next year.

02/10/2012 at 09:46

Brian - i'll bear the water tips in mind for future. I thought about carrying a small amount but as i say i hydrated well and could feel maybe a trip to the loo would be needed after the start if i drank any more. But like you say, if not needed just discard it ... i could certainly have done with a mouth wash at least in the first half mile.

Well done on the 2 runs and all the best for Eindhoven ... sub 2:55 target ????

BD - thanks. I suspect the max increase is maybe fitness/endurance related. When i did a max test back in March i did 2M warm up then 4 times up a 200 metre hill ( 2 fairly hard, then 2 all out ). My legs didn't quite get me to the finish then whereas now i think they would do and maybe i could go again. The feeling at the end was of being knackered and my legs couldn't carry me any more ... whereas on Sunday the feeling on the home straight when i max'd was different, it was more of feeling sick and i was spinning when i stopped.  

Interesting to hear others thoughts on this .... 

02/10/2012 at 09:59

Great race and report mace !! And a strong negative split is always very motivating. In hindsight, you probably went too slow at the start, but that is better than going too fast! Now you have a HM in the bag, you have a better idea of what pace you can sustain. I suspect your real max HR is even higher than you achieved in the HM.

I'm still lurgied, with only 5 days to go.

02/10/2012 at 10:15

mace, I'm thinking more in terms of sub 1:20

Edited: 02/10/2012 at 10:16
02/10/2012 at 10:20

DrDan, Not a disaster you being poorly at this stage. Better you rest up than do too much. Good luck shaking it off.

02/10/2012 at 12:13
Brian- ye I was on the sub 3 bit for a while before Manchester marathon this April, unfortunately it was a disaster for me on the day. I'm thinking its 213 because I've had about 8 or 9 readings of 210bpm. I've had about 6 readings of 211bpm. 3 readings of 212bpm and 1 reading of 213bpm. this reading was 4yrs ago on the road bike on a long steady uphill climb of a couple of miles in length. I was 17 at the time, now 21.
I read the Hadd document and it got me wondering if thats whats needed to get me improving again. Tempted to give it a try very soon
02/10/2012 at 13:43
Do people who do Hadd training recommend a periodic max heart rate test. every couple of years or so. Just a little confused to be honest because in the hadd document on page 23 it says to perform a max test but if the result is higher than 193 its unclear wether to use 193 or actual result.
02/10/2012 at 13:52

I've never understood Hadd's 193 cutt-off. It doesn't affect me (my max is only 178), so I've never delved into why this is the case..

02/10/2012 at 14:21
Dr Dan, I'm just trying to get a general consensus on if it'll be okay to just use 193 an not bother worrying about what to do/use if its higher. Your comment answers my qeustion I think.

So basically then if your max HR is higher than Joe's then you automatically use 193 and therefore use all the same numbers as Joe does in the document. Could someone confirm I have this right or not please?
02/10/2012 at 14:33
Dr Dan, you say about how your max hr is 178 so does that mean you do everything 15bpm lower than Joe does? So where joe does a 2400m test with 140, 150, 160, 170 & 180bpm would you personally use 125, 135, 145, 155, 165bpm?
02/10/2012 at 14:40

andy - as far as I am aware the 193 figure is taken from Joe and is not a Max limit. I came across some other threads where 200 was used in example of Aerobic work sessions in Phase 1 HADD training. Now I'm no expert, there are many more on this thread, but I guess the simple answer is your maxHR is your maxHR - not Joe's or anybody elses. If 210 is say your max then the %MaxHR training zones would read something like this for you:



02/10/2012 at 15:02
It so confusing though because Hadd says your marathon hr is 15-20bpm lower than your max but my max is 213 which could mean my marathon hr is 193-198 which I'm not sure is achievable to be honest
02/10/2012 at 15:25

I would not try to be too literal about it - 3bpm when it is that high is not going to make an awful lot of difference.

My MaxHr is 183 - if I take 15 - 20 beats off for my marathon pace it would be 163 - 168 - my training phases look something like this;


 So if I want to run at 165 for a marathon - like you I would be up at the 90% mark and like you, I feel at the moment that may well be unachievable. HOWEVER the HADD system is a slow progress system - I have only been doing this for 5 weeks and my HR on my slow runs is at last looking more stable. I have read different comments on this thread and I think it was 'mace' that said his pace had improved by 2 minutes after 6 months. I'm a bit geeky where numbers are concerned and like it to be exact - but our bodies are not made like that. All I know is it is starting to work for me and the Base Phase of doing all the runs at 70% - 75% maxHR is a vital part of this. If that is too slow for you try your best 5K pace and add 2:30 / 3:00 mins as your starting pace for HADD training.

Anyone else please comment in case I have said anything wrong

02/10/2012 at 15:46

AtD, Your HRmax can be derived. Have you any HR stats from races?

02/10/2012 at 15:53

Sorry AtD, I get so used to talking to the coffin dodgers that I don't come numbers like yours. You are a young whipper snapper so I suppose anything is possible.

Have you an HRav from your marathon in April?

02/10/2012 at 16:19

Brian- i dont actually have any HR info unfortunately from my running. i used to wear it on the bike but stopped wearing HR monitor for some reason 4yrs ago when i stopped cycling and started running. i read the document but have got a bit stuck on a couple of points.

  • should i use max HR 193 or my own.

hadd says- if your HRmax is 193 OR HIGHER, then the following applies:

HRmax: 193+ (even if over 200)

Best possible HRmarathon: 175-177 HRav.

to me this implies i should use 193 imho.

  • is it okay to start hadd style training on more than 50mpw with the ILTHR runs thrown in?

i ask this because recently (last 3months) i`ve been doing 100mpw but not really getting anywhere for my efforts

cheers in advance


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