HADD training plan

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06/10/2012 at 23:25

Brian, I was nearer the canal than you but I always used to enjoy that 1/2 mile w/u before getting into the proper stuff. Running down the Leeds/Liverpool is better than down Gain Lane and the surrounding areas

07/10/2012 at 00:21
Johnny bike- I guess if your lucky enough to be bang on what that formula says then great, I guess the formula gets a bad name because for the majority its not accurate. I should be 199 according to formula, actual max is 213.
07/10/2012 at 10:32
Jb, nothing wrong with gain lane and the smell of the bakery........
Can't beat the aroma of fresh bread.
Wow the Chester weather looks ideal. 12' sunny with 2mph breeze.
Fantastic conditions for our 26.2ers.
Feeling envious now.

Rest day for me.
07/10/2012 at 22:03
Conditions were perfect today. Wouldn't ask for anything even slightly different.
Hope to recover ASAP so as to get a fresh start with training now in view of not entering marathons again. The winner must of had wings doing a 2:25.
Has everyone Hadd a good run today wherever you are
08/10/2012 at 09:29

I had to pull out of Chester ... taper turned into complete inactivity due to a prolonged spell of congestion and coughing. I kept hoping that it would pass but on Saturday morning I decided it just wasn't going to be .  The bug has just about gone now, so time to put it behind me and concentrate on the Leeds Abbey Dash.

JohnnyBike wrote (see)
Dr.Dan wrote (see)

 ... stage 1 is knowing your real maxHR. 220-age doesn't work. Time to the max HR test !!

Dr D, that is the one thing that infuriates me about MHR. I can catagorically state that MHR at 220-age has been accurate for me for the last 25 years.

People (and not just yourself) dismiss 220-age as being inaapropiate and inaccurate but I always contend it must be accurate for some percentage of the population which happens to include me. If you know no better and cannot do a MHR test then that is a good starting point in my view.

JB ... 220-age works pretty well for me too as it happens. However, while 220-age is a reasonable average for the population, there is a very broad spread around that average which means that there are a very large number of people for whom it does not work. It's like predicting your own house price based on the average house price of the country. As painful as it is, you need to get an estate agent in to get a meaningful value.

08/10/2012 at 10:56

DrDan, Tough luck on Chester. Hope you get shut of the lurgy and have more luck at the AD.


08/10/2012 at 17:01
Ouch. Properly DOMS'ed after chester marathon yesterday so could take a while to get going again, hopefully within a week I'll be doing some easy low intensity jogs.

Dr dan sorry to hear about you pulling out. I never finished either, only got to 19m at 3hour pace then walked to 20m. Lesson learned: dont start if youve been ill in the 2 weeks before.
08/10/2012 at 17:13

Bad luck AtD ... I learned that lesson a few years back and so stayed this side of the Pennines.

5.4 miles for me today ... a little laboured after the bug and legs were asleep after only 10 miles in the previous 2 weeks (glad I didn't attempt to race yesterday!). I have 6 weeks of 10K prep ahead of me now ... and then on to a solid Hadd base period over the winter.

08/10/2012 at 17:52
I'm glad I started because i'd off forever been thinking "what if". Also glad because its a lesson learned. I feel like most people that I learn more from bad days than great ones. Good luck with your 10k prep, I look forward to see how you get on. As someone just about to start Hadd style training its good to see success storys to instill some confidence from the off. Are you doing Helsby four villages in Jan? Thats my next big target (sub 76 if poss)
08/10/2012 at 17:53

bad luck chaps, must be frustrating to do all that training and then not be able to race as you'd like. But the training should presumably see you well for future races, right? it's not as though it's wasted.

I'm trying to steadily increase my weekly mileage without injuring myself.

4 x 1 hour "jogs" planned midweek week, then a 5k parkrun on Saturday and another slow 60min jog on Sunday, which should mean at that paedestrian pace (11:15 min/mile ish for the slow runs) I'll cover about 30 miles.

Hopefully this slow jog will get slightly faster as I get fitter. That's the theory, right?

08/10/2012 at 17:58

i've added this to a couple of other threads on this forum, but worth adding here too: I've entered Manchester marathon next April and my mate, who has done a dozen marathons (ish) and has a 3:57 PB off of very little training (he doesn't really train, just runs for 90 mins once a week) and smokes and drinks a lot, has also entered. I'd like to show him that my approach of putting in lots of effort, but having very little natural talent can trump his oppoising approach. It's going to take quite a bit of faith as I slow through the next 3 months at a snails pace, to think that it's doing me good in the long term. Any stories of encouragement in this approach will be appreciated

08/10/2012 at 17:59
Ye frustrating on the actual day but I'm not really that fussed now though. The shear mileage from training will just be like a massive endurance base to start hadd training off ready for helsby half. So not that bad really. I enjoyed training for the marathon anyway.
08/10/2012 at 18:55

AG. It will work....stick to it. You may not see fantastic results to start with but you will by christmas see a considerrable difference.  I am not sure of your weight but also watch what your eating. Dont fall into the trap of treating yourself just because you are running so much. Every lb is worth circa 2 sec/mile.  ( thats right lose a stone and save 13 mins off your marathon time ) 

08/10/2012 at 19:08

Dr. Dan,

Tough luck on the illness. I think you made the right decision. Had you gone out it would not have been representative of your training. But all that good base is still intact and you can keep moving forward. Good luck getting ready for the 10K.

I'm still on the comeback trail. I'm in a bit of an unknown place right now. I'm trying to be conservative in ramping back up, but this is so hard. If I go out thinking I'll only run 6 miles, I'll end up running 9 (if I feel good at 6). Seems to be a pathological voice in my head. Anyway, I still get some weird twinges/feeling over the sports hernia area, but it doesn't get worse (is getting better week to week) and feels fine after the run (especially the next morning). 30 miles in this week.

It's interesting. I can go out and run 90 minutes without getting tired. That said, I'd say I lost a solid 45 seconds per mile at 70% MHR. How quickly that returns remains to be seen. But, despite that loss, I can go out and run for 70 minutes at 80% max HR very comfortably. While I'm moving slower at 80% now vs when I got hurt, I expected to have great difficulty at the higher HR for  while.

My plan is to stick to the 25-40 MPW range for a while and just get my legs/HR back. If all is well around Xmas, I'll ramp back up to the 60-70 MPW and see which marathan to tackle next spring or fall. Oh yeah, I'll be doing plenty of core work!

Edited: 08/10/2012 at 19:08
08/10/2012 at 21:01

cheers AGF, i'm reasonably patient and happy to dig in and do the work if I think I'm going to get results, but the reassurance along the way helps.

as for weight, it's not really a big issue for me. I'm 5'10'' and 70kg, so pretty lean. My weight rarely changes, and I eat a healthy balanced diet, so my only concern is making sure i eat enough carbs to make up for the extra calories i'll be burning up as the mileage increases.

09/10/2012 at 09:04

AgentO  ... just stick to it and you'll be sucessful.

VTRunner - good to hear you're repairing nicely ... your comeback plan seems sensible to me.

AtD - I was going to run Helsby but my son has a hockey tournament  in the opposite direction, so I'm now hoping to do Brass Monkey HM in York instead. It's on the same day as Helsy but I might be able to do the taxi duties and run as well. The only issue is getting a place in BM ... it sells out within hours!

09/10/2012 at 09:20
AG- I suppose the weight issue all depends how skinny you want to be, I'm 6ft and 70kg at the moment, though am sure that'll go down slowly once I get into full training again. better to strong though than weak. Am sure you must have a weight which you dont want to go under. but keep going with the hadding and you'll get there.

Vtrunner- all the best with the comeback. Hope it happens for you.

Dr Dan- fair enough, york is nice anyway. I wouldn't turn down a trip there either. Does it really sell that quick? I mean hours, sheesh thats fast. I thought helsby fills quick with 1100 out of 2000 places taken in first 6 days of entries being open.

Missing running allready, still sore from Sunday.
09/10/2012 at 09:57

cheers guys, re the weight, I'm pretty happy with my weight at the moment, and my body fat is pretty low so I'll be aiming to maintain my weight, if possible, as my mileage increases. Good job I enjoy rice and pasta :-\


09/10/2012 at 10:06

Dr Dan / AtD - tough luck for Chester - frustrating I'm sure

AG - I have been training on HADD system for only 5 weeks now - I'm 53 and weigh in at a hefty 156 lbs!!! My pace for the 70% max HR is about the same as yours - I'm averaging 11:30 / 11:45. At first, my HR was up and down like a yoyo - I had to walk on some of the inclines - I started on 15 miles per week. Now my HR is much more stable, my pace is not improving yet but I can see because HRav is getting stable it is only a matter of time before this will be reflected in pace. I no longer have to walk to keep the HR down (I still have to run VERY slow though). I've worked up to 21 miles per week now and have two longer runs in there at 60 to 80 mins. I have given myself 9 weeks to get to 30+ miles then review where I'm at. At that point I would hope that I can see my pace improving and that my HR has become very stable. I'm aiming to get the pace to under 11:00 (maybe better) on my base phase (70% - 74% max) before moving up to introduce the next level of training.

So - don't be dissapointed with the slow pace to start. It feels wrong and uncomfortable but you have to give HADD time to work. I have completed 2 half marathons this year, did these prior to starting HADD so it did feel like a step backwards - but not now. My running is getting easier at this slow pace, I have had NO injuries since starting and providing I stick to the regime I don't anticipate any.

I'm not doing any races until March next year - I've realised this is going to take some time and I want to give the HADD system my best shot - which means allocating some serious time to it.

09/10/2012 at 10:24

AG - attached is comparison of wk1 and wk 5 (runs approx same length in time). Note gap between HR (white lines) is narrower on week 5 meaning more stable. My point is to show that this is working.



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