HADD training plan

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31/10/2012 at 09:24

Spen - There have been times when I've run my LSR below 70% maxHR and the pace has still been well within the "running" category. But these have been at times when my mileage has been high and I've been in full blown Hadd mode.

GazOC - nice subLT session. Your 5K PB is very close to mine, as is your sub-LT pace (agree, your 10K and HM times will get a good kicking next time your rcae them!). After warm up, I'd start the next sub-LT session at 7:15/m for the first 2-3 miles (ignore HR, it will be below 160 bpm) and only after that stage stick to the 160 limit. Those first few fast miles make the session harder than it needs to be. I was doing two sub-LT sessions per week and it was indeed very hard! Hadd does suggest that you "build up the distance you can run for, over time, to 10 miles", so another approach is to start with two 6M sub-LT sessiosn per week, rather than a single 10M session.

Keir - I think there's more toothpaste in your tube. If you can run faster at low HRs, then that should convert to faster paces at higher HRs.

VTrunner - great to see you come back so strongly after your woes!

31/10/2012 at 14:24
Brian. wrote (see)

I have heard of a few runners that get injured in the early days of hadding. I was one of them. I think what happens (certainly personally) is that after a few weeks the numbers improve and the runner gets carried away. I fairly quickly found myself hadding 7 days a week, as it was novel and very enjoyable (as you guys know, I love the stats). As has been said already, the danger period is the 80% runs, and particularly stepping up to 2 per week. This transition must be done very gradually, and the runner must be prepared to back-off at any time. 80% for 70mins is not a big deal in itself, but compared with the inevitable up in mileage, it is potentially a minefield.

I completely agree Brian. By the time I had introduced the 80% runs, I had thrown caution to the wind. Every run felt great at that point and I felt invincible. I was at 70 miles per week (more than double what I had ever done before) and was plotting ways to get more miles in (in addition to the 80% runs). I think Dr. Dan warned me at one point not to burn the cake. I completely torched it. Lesson learned...

31/10/2012 at 19:51

That  makes sense Dan. Looking back I was pushing hard over the first couple of miles to get my heart rate up to 160 when if I'd have just run 7:15 m/m it would have got there on its own.

31/10/2012 at 20:20

Thanks for the warning Brian.

Dr.Dan wrote (see)

Keir - I think there's more toothpaste in your tube.

I hope not DD. I've just had a vasectomy today! No running for 2 weeks according to the Dr.  But then again. I reckon I could start sooner so long as I wear a mankini for support! 

But on the positve side, I now have a plan in place to be able to ramp up the mileage at 70%MaxHR and also have an idea of how that feels. 

31/10/2012 at 21:06
GazOc sounds like your having same problem I have on the 70% runs. After a few weeks I now start at 8min pace and actually speed up slightly.
31/10/2012 at 21:59

Yep Andy, I didn't have an idea what speed 160 BPM equated to when I started the run so the first few miles were guesswork. I'll know for next time

Ran another 10 tonight at 145 BPM (75% max) and could feel yesterdays run a little in my legs.

Mile 1: 8:09 (128 bpm)

Mile 2: 8:04 (138 bpm)

Mile 3: 7:53 (140 bpm)

Mile 4: 7:59 (140 bpm)

Mile 5: 7:55 (138 bpm)

Mile 6: 8:11 (138 bpm)

Mile 7: 8:07 (138 bpm)

Mile 8: 7:50 (143 bpm)

Mile 9: 8:08 (140 bpm)

Mile 10 7:59 (141 bpm)

 

Edited: 31/10/2012 at 22:01
01/11/2012 at 09:27

Keir - ouch.. And, no, I'm not referring to the mankini.

Nice numbers GazOC ... avHR was sub 72% of maxHR in the end.

I did 5.4 easy miles yesterday ... 8:29/m at 73% maxHR. Legs are still mangled after Sunday's 10M trail race. Hoping for a longer version today but depends on when the BT man turns up to fix our phone line.... Good news is that I've cleared the diary for a parkrun on Saturday ... hoping for the first sub-19 since July 2011.

VTrunner wrote (see
I think Dr. Dan warned me at one point not to burn the cake. I completely torched it. Lesson learned...

I remember that ... and yes, you did torch it!
I also ignored various warnings about taking it easy after a marathon and ended up in a similar state at the end of last year. Lesson learnedBest to be 10% under-trained than 1% over-trained... according to Hadd.

01/11/2012 at 09:47

Well Im having a the rest of week off running to let my little niggle clear up and im going back to this.   When I did it last year I felt the fittest I have for years.

01/11/2012 at 10:21

Keir - running's not the only thing you won't be participating in for a couplke of weeks

01/11/2012 at 10:51

No. I guess I won't be riding (my bike) much either.

01/11/2012 at 11:02

Keir, good luck with the healing nadgers. Seem to think I got an infection (little lad was 3 or 4 so 17ish years ago), so stick to the book and do the salt baths etc.

Gaz, More good numbers.

DrDan, Fingers crossed for the sub-19 parkrun.

Spen, sensible head on. Hope the niggle clears up quickly.

First little bit of faster running for me this week. Did 7miles Tuesday including 1.6 miles at 7:01 pace. Followed that up with 8.3miles yesterday, with 2.25miles at 6:44 pace. I'm feeling good to go now, but don't intend to start 8 weeks HM training till 19th November. We go to NY for 3 nights next Thursday, then Vegas for 8 nights. Hopefully NY will have the transportation sytems back by then.

01/11/2012 at 14:03

Ah ... a potentially painful typo.... a sub-20 parkrun ...but  one begininging with 19:XX. Sub-19 is beyond me (for now).

01/11/2012 at 14:09

Great to see HADD world alive and kicking. Now that the autumn marathon is out of the way I should be back on here more. My Garmin settings have been changed to HR & distance only so pace does only come into the equation at the end of the run

BD2000: don't despair. It is slow in the beginning but slow plodding for a few months really pays dividends in the end.

Having said that since my autumn marathon I seem to have slowed down dramatically. Before the race I would churn out 22 mile long runs at 68-70% in 8:30s. That was my pace yesterday on my first attempt at sub LT in a while . And 70% runs are closer to 10m/m right now . Anyway, it will come back. Few weeks down the line things will be looking brighter.

andy: another one that's making good progess.

Keir: blimey but you are FAST! I use HADD for base training too. I found it to be a great way to get decent mileage in without ever being knackered. We are knackered enough when we marathon train so we really can do with a less taxing phase inbetween. Hope you recover well from the vasectomy .
I remember when Mr. Chick had his done ... he couldn't even walk, let alone run!

Dr. Dan:
good racing at Harewood.  

Gaz OC: very consistent pacing on that 10 miler. Those soft PBs need some serious revising

VTrunner: happy to see you back running. That was quite a long time out. Sometimes we have to break our limits to find out where they are.

Brian. wrote (see)

I have heard of a few runners that get injured in the early days of hadding. I was one of them. I think what happens (certainly personally) is that after a few weeks the numbers improve and the runner gets carried away. I fairly quickly found myself hadding 7 days a week, as it was novel and very enjoyable (as you guys know, I love the stats). As has been said already, the danger period is the 80% runs, and particularly stepping up to 2 per week. This transition must be done very gradually, and the runner must be prepared to back-off at any time. 80% for 70mins is not a big deal in itself, but compared with the inevitable up in mileage, it is potentially a minefield.

wise words. I found it helpful initally to take it easy on the 2nd 80% run. I think I threw 2 lots of 15mins @ 80% into a 10 miler, then 2 x 20, then 3 x 20 ...  And if it felt tough I would leave it and just run at 70% Listen to your body and all that.

spen: hope the niggle heals quickly.

Edited: 01/11/2012 at 14:10
01/11/2012 at 15:42

I'm sure this threads going 'viral' (whatever that is)

01/11/2012 at 15:55

Apologies DrDan, thats NEXT months target

Chick, welcome back to Hadding. It takes a full month to properly recover from a marathon - when was yours?

10.08 miles in 80:16 @ 7:58 pace HRav=125 (67.6%)

I've had a sore throat for 2 days, thought i was coming down with a cold. But it hasn't materialised thankfully. I've just had a nice surprise - email from Eindhoven Half informing me I've won a prize!

01/11/2012 at 17:32
Wow this thread moves quick at times
Took a day off yesterday to try an loose the niggle. Did some core work instead.
Its one of them annoying ones that doesn' seem to limit running but gets a bit uncomfertable when any faster running happens.
Could be icing an unfinished cake now.
01/11/2012 at 17:39

Sounds like my niggle.   I think it is a bit of postier tibilia tenditis but not surre.

01/11/2012 at 17:57

lurgies and niggles are banned here! ... take care folks!

Sounds like a nice holiday coming up Brian! And good news on the prize!

Welcome back to Hadd Chick!

14.3 miles for me today ... 70% maxHR, 9:25/m. First proper LSR for a while.

01/11/2012 at 18:24
spen, as AtD said good question. Not sure about the science behind the difference between 65 and 70%. All I would say is that I have not needed to go down to 65% hadding. the only time I dip below 70 is for recovery runs within a more traditional schedule.

gaz, the secret is don't step up till comfortable. So stick with 1 80% run for now.
01/11/2012 at 19:05

Chick: Hi, I'm sure the pace will come back when you get your legs back properly after the marathon.

Good luck with the niggle spen.

Nice long runn Dr Dan.

 

Thanks for the advice Brian. What type of runs should be 75% and which should be 70? I'm seeing people here doing LSRs at 70% where ther Hadd document I've got seems to have these runs at 75%?

12 miles tonight in 1:36 at an average 145 BPM. For some reason it took me 5 miles or so to settle into the pace tonight, I ran the first half too fast at around 7:50 m/m and ~148 BPM but got into a rhythm over the second half and was pretty consistent at 143 and 8:10 m/m.  Strange run.

Edited: 01/11/2012 at 19:06
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