AgentGinger - Do not worry about everyone passing you! I am at the same level running at 11min miles doing HADD base. I did HM in March at 9:40 pace and started REALLY slow - it's surprising how many people you see zoom off quickly and then after 5 or 6 miles you are passing them with comfort.
I'm still working on base phase and think I'll be there for another few weeks before putting an 80% er.
I did not run last night. I was asked to do the main share at an AA meeting so dashed off (Im a recovering alkie btw). Will run later really need to get back into it.
Im a Chester lad originally btw and did look at doing Helsby in Jan.
I am defo going to stick with HADDing as it will suit me for my next Ultra in May, Malvern!
Spen71 - I'm originall a Wirral lad!!
Anyway went running last night - local village road flooded on usual route - spent the next hour dodging huge puddles and crazy drivers who seemed determined to blind me with their full beam. What is it with them? - if I was a car coming towards them they would dip and slow down - but no, they obviously have part of their brain missing when it comes to deciding what a runner is!!!
Sorry, rant over - as a consequence my HR as a little elevated - still only 72% but pace was really slow.
A few of us seem to be from the same area!!!! I live in Brum now tho for my sins!
Good grief, things are moving quick in here !!
Dr Dan - top running @ Abbey Dash. Sub-40 looks to be in trouble
BD2000 - keep with it and never be ashamed of your times, you're doing a great thing and will improve. HADD will get you under 2hrs HM for sure
Preston666 - welcome and good luck.
Keir - liking the cake analogy. And it's ggod to see somebody doing a 2400 test, can't say i've seen many report on doing one in this thread. Not done one myself either. Oh, and 14M followed by an hour of core !!!??
Tek - nice plan ... good to hear the knee's holding up.
Brian - interesting reading and points ( particularly re drift, makes sense) ... and i'm glad your arse-ache cleared up
Chick - pace less 'shit' now i hope
atd - impressive 80% stuff
Spen - glad you're ok
Agent G - nice improvement @ 70%, well done.
Gaz - good luck Sunday
First sub-LT run for 2 months this morning so i'll whack some stats up in a minute ... best post this first before it gets lost .....
Last sub-LT run was back in September when i thought my HR max was 175, but since then have raced a HM and hit 181 so based on that i decided to up the HRav from 145 to 150 for the sub-LT section.
I always use a 1.32M lap of the block for this as it's fairly flat.
I was expecting to hit somewhere around 7min miling for the sub-LT section based on :
1) The Sept run was 7:40 @ 145HRav
2) My stats consistently show i've improved on the 70% runs by about 20 secs per mile for the same HR since Sept
3) My pace increases about 4 secs per mile per 1 bpm
So, 20secs improvement plus 20secs for the extra 5bpm.
Stats were ( for the sub-LT , excluding 1.3M w/u and 1.3M cool down ) ....
Lap Miles Time Pace HR %
1 1.32 9:50 7:27 145 80
2 1.32 9:41 7:20 151 83
3 1.32 9:41 7:20 151 83
4 1.32 9:38 7:18 152 84
5 1.32 9:40 7:19 151 83
TOT 6.60 48:30 7:21 150 83
So, not as quick as i expected.
1) It felt tough at times so maybe i need to get a few of these under my belt as i haven't done one for 2 months and hopefully that's when i'll see the improvement from the 70% runs.
2) I was convinced that i'd slowed on the last lap a fair bit which is why i didn't continue for another ( planned ) lap - maybe related to 1) in that it felt quicker in the earlier miles as not used to it.
3) I slept crap last night as i was so excited at the thought of doing this run
mace, well done getting out there and trying a tougher run. There are lots of factors that can affect your run as you know. And also your system does get used to not having to go that far that fast. Having had 2 months without an 80%er, you WILL get slower anyway, it's a fact. Also I am guessing here but I know you have upped your mileage recently and you will be tired as a consequence.
I'm fairly sure that when you do your next one next week, following a couple of easy days, the pace will change again. Thing is with the 80%ers you need to be doing them consistently to get good results.
8M easy at lunch.
mace - thx for support
Your Sub-LT run: Do you move up on % of MaxHR or on bpm each time you reach a Lactate Threshold? Does that read write?
e.g. let's say I reach regularly reach 9 - 10 miles @ 72% (131bpm) with no loss in pace - would I then add 1 workout at 80% (146bpm) or move up say 10bpm to 77% (or is 3% irrevalent at that stage)?
Brian - yes, 2 mths ago i was averaging 35-40 a week, now up to 50. And my HR bands have moved up 5 beats. Also, comparing the run up to both runs i get :
Sept = 6 - 16 - rest - rest - 7 - subLT
Nov = rest - 17 - 5 - 10 - 7 - subLT
So next week i think i'll take a rest day before going again.
Looking over the numbers again i have to say i'm happy with the HR which is solid for consistent pace. Better than it was in September.
Well did 6 miles in the wind and rain. Was a struggle at the slow pace. Still some pain in my calf. Hopefully just some stiffness or is back to resting
I feel quite lazy when i see the sort of weekly mileage that some of you guys and gals are popping out. How much time are you spending on your feet over the week. I assume it's only possible to be doing 50+ miles per week if you're quite a bit faster than my 10min/miles, otherwise that'd take me over 8 hours.
This week for example, I'll have run for about 50 mins on mon, tue and thurs, 90mins on weds and about 2 hours on saturday, (resting on thurs and swimming on sunday) and still covering just 35 miles (give or take). Are you high-milers on your feet for the same amount of time, just running faster, or are you also out on the road more often and for longer?
AG - most of mine is around 9 min per mile so about 7.5 hrs a week.
That includes 2 @ 90mins and 1 @ 150mins and then 3 runs of about 45-60mins.
I'm lucky in that i live a 10 min cycle ride to work so during the week instead of laying in i get up about 90mins earlier than i used to. I'd imagine it's a real job to grind out the miles if you have a decent commute to do.
AG - my weekly mileage is 30 at present. Longer training time just isn't possible for me with work, dog walking, living, etc,etc. My aim is to complete HM's only for the time being. I recognise everything will take longer at this mileage but that's it.
I reckon 30 miles a week for me for HM's is just about OK (unless anyone thinks differently). I would say for full marathon it has to be 40+
mace wrote (see) Good grief, things are moving quick in here !! Dr Dan - top running @ Abbey Dash. Sub-40 looks to be in trouble
Good grief, things are moving quick in here !! Dr Dan - top running @ Abbey Dash. Sub-40 looks to be in trouble
Yep, I can't keep up with the thread anymore... inspiration stuff though!!
I have been sub-40 before mace ... and will again. However, if that's going to happen, I'd better start training!!!!!! Recovery over .... time to get back to work!
Oh, I'm also originally from Chester ... but now in Leeds.
what I am running at present but will increase milage after xmas/ new year, and add one 85% run.
Monday 5m @ 70%
Tuesday 7m @ 70%
Wednesday 10m @ 80% with 1mw/p and 1mw/d total 12m
Thursday 11m @ 70%
Sat parkrun on feel only no HRM used
Sunday 16m @ 70%
70% runs are between 9.30 to 10,00 mins a mile
80% runs are between 8.0 to 8.10 mins a mile
parkruns average 7 mins a mile
The park runs will be ran at 70% or not run at all early next year. Milage just over 50, with if I wish 2 days rest. As you can see lots of slow miles.
BD2000 - sorry i missed your post earlier.
I'd suggest going to 80% - i stand to be corrected but i believe the theory is that 75-80% is a 'nothing' zone ie. it's not low enough to develop mitochondria to improve aerobically and not high enough to stimulate/increase lactate threshold. Then once you can nail pace/HR @ 80%, you nudge HR up by up to 5 beats. Once you 'master' that next level you nudge HR up a bit more so you are gradually easing the threshold up.
Thats the theory Mac but its never rung true to me (not that I have any firm evidence to the contrary, just a gut feeling). I accept its too low for lactate runs but not so sure about the aerobic side of things. The Hadd document has "Joe" running in this range when he's relatively new to the schedule.
I think its more likely, rather than it being some sort of "dead zone" where its not helping anthing inprove, the disadvatage of 75-80 running lies in that you can get similar results aerobically running at 70-75% while also managing more miles, more time on feet and with less chance of injury.
Like I say, just a gut feeling though.
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