HADD training plan

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22/11/2012 at 08:58

Keir, Wow! Thats a good evenings work! 14M and a sore session - nice going. Cracking numbers on the 2.4k test too. Looks like you have an improvement of ~ 4s/mile for 1 beat. Mine tends to be ~ 3s. Not sure what this means at all, just an observation really.

22/11/2012 at 09:08

Interesting. Brian. As you say, not sure if that means anything. From experience I know my marathon ave HR is 161 and 5k 173, so there is not a lot to play with between that range. Not sure if that is good / bad / will change or is irrelevant. 

22/11/2012 at 10:06

Keir, That is interesting. My 5k HRav (from Aug 2012) was 172. My last 4 marathons came out as Apr 10 - 165, Oct 10 - 162, Oct 11 - 164, Apr 12 - 161.

So our racing HRs are almost identical. How old are you btw? I'm 51 (but don't tell anyone).


22/11/2012 at 10:25
Thats some nights work Keir, well done!

Brian, Ive got a 10K race a week on Sunday in which I'm pretty confident of shaving off a bit of time off my PB. Then hopefully a few 70 mile weeks Hadding until mid January when I start a training program for Manchester marathon at the end of April
22/11/2012 at 10:29

Gaz, which 10k are you doing? I'm toying with either the Ribble Valley 10k or the Hot Toddy on 30th Dec.

Anybody heard the rumour that there will be a York marathon (and maybe a half at the same time) in the near future?

22/11/2012 at 10:34

thanks for all your words of encouragement I shoudl probably reiterate that i've not been measuring every single run i do, or doing the HADD test run thing, to accurately measure improvement, but mostly running by effort, and just checking occassionally to make sure my HR is not drifting too much. I'm planning a 10 mile run on Saturday, so i'll strap on the HR monitor and check for drift over the distance. I still don't "feel" particularly fit, but I guess it's hard to remember what I felt like before, plus it's quite humbling to have most other runners passing me :-\

22/11/2012 at 10:57
Keir wrote (see)

Was that10k a 80% run ATD and what are your pbs?

So I did my first HADD 2,400m test last night. 1m w/u (which in hindsight I didn't need as was above 130bpm!) then 2400m (6 laps of track) on, 90sec off:

131bpm (69%) 8:02m/m - felt sooo slooowww
139bpm (74%) 7:27m/m - ok
149bpm (78%) 6:53m/m - a bit livelier
158bpm (83%) 6:18m/m - slightly uncomfortably fast, but nice
167bpm (88%) 5:53m/m - hurts, but managable.

I took a lap or so to reach target bpm (130/140/150/160/170) which is why the ave bpms are a bit lower than targets.

Anything else I can read into these stats, or do I need to repeat the test in 6 weeks time to get something meaningful?

Rounded off with an easy 6m to make 14m in total and a core and stretching 1hr session. 

Keir yes it was a 80% run. didn`t think i`d manage the full 70mins so just went to do 40mins for the first session. next time i`ll be tempted to go for 70mins but will take Brians advice and go for 10min increases so for example next wednesday i`ll do-

15min warm up (approx 2miles)

50mins at 80% (approx 8miles)

i look forward to seeing what these sessions come out as when they get up to 70mins because i reckon the session could end up being around 15miles with warm up/Down.

oh you asked what the PB`s are:

5k- 16:22

10k- 34:28

10mile- 57:19

HM- 1:16:50

FM- 3:05 (training run)

NOTE: all these are pre hadd so i hope to get significant improvement on these in 2013.


22/11/2012 at 11:08
Nice set of PBs Andy!

Brian, I'm doing Wrexham 10K on the 2nd Dec but theres also a double marathon in Liverpool on New Years Eve and Day that I'm thinking of doing one of the day's as a training run to blow the cobwebs away after Xmas. Good luck with your choice of race.
22/11/2012 at 11:16
Also well done on the 2400m reps test. I think it actually looks a hard session as it goes on, I've not done one of em yet, (not enough days in the week).

gaz oc are you doing helsby in Jan. Its only about 6weeks away I think.
22/11/2012 at 11:26

AtD, I'm mightily impressed with your pb's too, but I knew what level you were at from the Sub-3 thread. I'm not so sure you will readily improve your 5k/10k direct from Hadding. You may need to ice the cake a little, with maybe 4 weeks of sharpening. But I'd be very surprised if youcouldn't better your half time with very little tweaking.

And of course the marathon is a given, with the appropriate long runs.

Gaz, good luck in Wrexham. What is your pb/target?

22/11/2012 at 11:40

Yes. I'm glad I asked about the pbs AtD. That certainly explains your pace on the session the other day! But how can you regularly post on the sub 3 thread without having seriously run a marathon? Better put that right soon! 

The session was hard, but actually there was more easy time than hard time, if you know what I mean. I found I had to run with my HRM in my hand all the time and keep checking HR every 200m as it was easy to be a few bpm over / under without realising.

I think I will slot in a bit of 80% next week. Is 40mins within a 60min run a good starting point?

22/11/2012 at 12:17

AgentGinger - Do not worry about everyone passing you!  I am at the same level running at 11min miles doing HADD base. I did HM in March at 9:40 pace and started REALLY slow - it's surprising how many people you see zoom off quickly and then after 5 or 6 miles you are passing them with comfort.

I'm still working on base phase and think I'll be there for another few weeks before putting an 80% er.

22/11/2012 at 12:19

I did not run last night.  I was asked to do the main share at an AA meeting so dashed off (Im a recovering alkie btw).   Will run later really need to get back into it.

Im a Chester lad originally btw and did look at doing Helsby in Jan.

I am defo going to stick with HADDing as it will suit me for my next Ultra in May,   Malvern!

22/11/2012 at 12:45

Spen71 - I'm originall a Wirral lad!!

Anyway went running last night - local village road flooded on usual route - spent the next hour dodging huge puddles and crazy drivers who seemed determined to blind me with their full beam. What is it with them? - if I was a car coming towards them they would dip and slow down - but no, they obviously have part of their brain missing when it comes to deciding what a runner is!!!

Sorry, rant over - as a consequence my HR as a little elevated - still only 72% but pace was really slow.

22/11/2012 at 12:52
I'm entered in Helsby and ill be hoping to get that 9 seconds of my 1:30:09 time for last weekend. My old 10K PB is 42:10 but I think Im capable of getting under 41 mins on a flat course. We'll see next week!!
22/11/2012 at 12:54

A few of us seem to be from the same area!!!!   I live in Brum now tho for my sins!

22/11/2012 at 13:11

Good grief, things are moving quick in here !!

Dr Dan - top running @ Abbey Dash. Sub-40 looks to be in trouble

BD2000 - keep with it and never be ashamed of your times, you're doing a great thing and will improve. HADD will get you under 2hrs HM for sure

Preston666 - welcome and good luck.

Keir - liking the cake analogy. And it's ggod to see somebody doing a 2400 test, can't say i've seen many report on doing one in this thread. Not done one myself either. Oh, and 14M followed by an hour of core !!!??

Tek - nice plan ... good to hear the knee's holding up.

Brian - interesting reading and points ( particularly re drift, makes sense) ... and i'm glad your arse-ache cleared up

Chick - pace less 'shit' now i hope

atd - impressive 80% stuff

Spen - glad you're ok

Agent G - nice improvement @ 70%, well done.

Gaz - good luck Sunday

First sub-LT run for 2 months this morning so i'll whack some stats up in a minute ... best post this first before it gets lost .....

22/11/2012 at 13:29

Last sub-LT run was back in September when i thought my HR max was 175, but since then have raced a HM and hit 181 so based on that i decided to up the HRav from 145 to 150 for the sub-LT section.

I always use a 1.32M lap of the block for this as it's fairly flat.

I was expecting to hit somewhere around 7min miling for the sub-LT section based on :

1) The Sept run was 7:40 @ 145HRav

2) My stats consistently show i've improved on the 70% runs by about 20 secs per mile for the same HR since Sept

3) My pace increases about 4 secs per mile per 1 bpm

So, 20secs improvement plus 20secs for the extra 5bpm.

Stats were ( for the sub-LT , excluding 1.3M w/u and 1.3M cool down ) ....

Lap     Miles      Time      Pace        HR          %

1        1.32          9:50      7:27        145        80

2        1.32          9:41      7:20        151        83

3        1.32          9:41      7:20        151        83

4        1.32          9:38      7:18        152        84

5        1.32          9:40      7:19        151        83

TOT    6.60          48:30    7:21        150        83

So, not as quick as i expected.

1) It felt tough at times so maybe i need to get a few of these under my belt as i haven't done one for 2 months and hopefully that's when i'll see the improvement from the 70% runs.

2) I was convinced that i'd slowed on the last lap a fair bit which is why i didn't continue for another ( planned ) lap - maybe related to 1) in that it felt quicker in the earlier miles as not used to it.

3) I slept crap last night as i was so excited at the thought of doing this run

22/11/2012 at 14:21

mace, well done getting out there and trying a tougher run. There are lots of factors that can affect your run as you know. And also your system does get used to not having to go that far that fast. Having had 2 months without an 80%er, you WILL get slower anyway, it's a fact. Also I am guessing here but I know you have upped your mileage recently and you will be tired as a consequence.

I'm fairly sure that when you do your next one next week, following a couple of easy days, the pace will change again. Thing is with the 80%ers you need to be doing them consistently to get good results.

8M easy at lunch.

22/11/2012 at 14:29

mace - thx for support

Your Sub-LT run: Do you move up on % of MaxHR or on bpm each time you reach a Lactate Threshold? Does that read write?

e.g. let's say I reach regularly reach 9 - 10 miles @ 72% (131bpm) with no loss in pace - would I then add 1 workout at 80% (146bpm) or move up say 10bpm to 77% (or is 3% irrevalent at that stage)?

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